New Engine into pre-'74 car and ADRs

mr_h._simpson · 24-10-2010, 02:45 PM

Hello,

Looking at buying a '62 Cortina with a mid 80's Toyota twin cam engine in it and have a concern about lack of anti-pollution gear on the engine. I live in NSW.

Car has engineers papers for engine and gearbox.

I have looked at the RTA website for clarification. It just says with a car made after '74 that is getting a more modern engine the engine needs to comply with the later ADR. It does not mention if the car is pre-'74.

So, I rang two RTA approved engineers and got two different answers. First one said engine needs to have its ADR stuff. Second one said engine doesn't need to ADR stuff as is pre-'74. I explained in both cases the car is a '62 model.

Can anyone give me a definite answer or somewhere I can look to get one?

Also, if it does need to have ADR stuff is it hard to fit something on that will keep the rego people happy?

Thanks for any info.
Andrew

T3man · 24-10-2010, 03:00 PM

Being pre 74 it does not have to comply - the engineer who told you it did needs to go back to school. It will pass in NSW without any problem whatsoever. The RTA have already given you the definitive answer - they are the authority so why are you even asking keyboard warriors for an opinion?

mr_h._simpson · 24-10-2010, 03:34 PM

Thx for the advice.

I thought I would give the forum a try as the RTA website didn't specifically say what the rules are for a pre '74. It didn't say anything!

Then the differing RTA engineers answers worried me.

So thought others on the forum might have done a similar thing in NSW and could give advice.

Thanks again.

Anyone done a newer engine into a pre '74 car in NSW and had any trouble dropping the antipollution gear?

MAV50L · 24-10-2010, 03:36 PM

Doesnt matter of the age of the car the Emission gear has to match either the age of the car or the age of the motor , which ever is NEWER.
Been there and done this before with engineering cars.
If the car is currently engineered and registered as it is , dont worry about it. Just dont let it run out of rego and have to be blue slipped.

fmc351 · 24-10-2010, 03:37 PM

What T3 said.

jpd80 · 24-10-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

Being pre 74 it does not have to comply - the engineer who told you it did needs to go back to school. It will pass in NSW without any problem whatsoever.

Only if that engine was an option on the original car.
I know with Qld Transport, it goes on the year model of the engine, an idea from NSW RTA...

**ebxr8240** · 24-10-2010, 11:14 PM

Just keep the EPA gear on motor to atleast it's registered..
It won't hurt to have some EPA on it anyway...

mr_h._simpson · 25-10-2010, 08:29 AM

Thx ebxr8240 but car has had it removed so I can't just leave it on.

It also has QLD rego at the mo so will need blueslipping for NSW rego.

The different replies on the forum reflect the different replies from the RTA approved engineers(!). Makes it hard to know what the ruling is.

302 XC · 25-10-2010, 08:47 AM

If it has been fully engineered in QLD then the motor should have all pollution gear fitted (well maybe fitted when approved)
My understanding is along mav50l s lines
Pollution gear must be fitted to whichever is the newer
Older engine in newer car,then the older engine must comply with emmision regs to the newer car
Newer engine in older car engine must comply to the engine emmission regs from the engines date of manufacture
Hence why alot of 4x4s running older style V8s run LPG
But the big killer in this country is,
Just because it has been approved in one state doesnt mean it will be approved in another
Jump on the dept of transport/main roads website in your state
Find out who are approving these conversion
Most desk jockies at main roads ect wouldnt have a clue

T3man · 25-10-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_h._simpson

The different replies on the forum reflect the different replies from the RTA approved engineers(!). Makes it hard to know what the ruling is.

You get that on a forum. Try asking which is the better colour white or black ...

RTA approved engineers however should know what they are doing. But like in any industry there are drongos who have NFI and just take the easy way out by saying "no". They leave it up to you to do all the investigating and reading for them.

Once again I say - the information the RTA themselves have given you is correct. If the car is pre 74 there is no issues with emission controls regardless of the age/era of the engine you fit.

302 XC · 25-10-2010, 10:51 AM

T3,
Not sure for which state laws your mentioning
But along the rules your stating
I can go put a new injected V8 into say an XR or XT Falcon and have now issues regarding emmission laws ?????
So new V8 running no cats ect,oh boy thatll work

T3man · 25-10-2010, 02:15 PM

He was enquiring about NSW - my reply was therefore about NSW.

However, I did err.

The date of 1974 from the thread title misled me and I incorrectly assumed the OP to have checked the date correctly - in fact the critical date is 1972.

T3man · 25-10-2010, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

T3,
I can go put a new injected V8 into say an XR or XT Falcon and have now issues regarding emmission laws ?????
So new V8 running no cats ect,oh boy thatll work

Why wouldn't it work? What makes you think just because it is a new injected V8 engine it needs cats to work?

mr_h._simpson · 25-10-2010, 02:58 PM

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies and sorry about the error on the date (72 v 74) T3man, my mistake.

I rang the place that issues the blue slips in town to see what their stance is as I figured they are the guys that will look at it.

They said 'as the car is pre-antipollution laws it does not need to have any antipollution gear, irrespective of the year of the engine'.

As there seems to be some confusion out there might be worth checking with whoever will issue the blue slip before starting a project/buying an interstate pre '72 car that has a newer engine.

Thanks again.

302 XC · 25-10-2010, 04:47 PM

Its great your on a winner

T3 man,
I think the main issues of confusion is the various laws in the various states

T3man · 25-10-2010, 05:58 PM

You're right there! So much for Australian Design Rules and Australian Road Rules. There are still way too many anomolies in the system. Some just cause inconvenience and confusion. Some of them are downright dangerous like the different U-turn rules.

Anyhow, good the outcome was a favourable one this time.

[Tonko] · 25-10-2010, 07:56 PM

How would this apply in Vic? say, if we wanted to put in an XE crossflow in my sisters XY. Would we need the carbon cannister etc..?

T3man · 25-10-2010, 08:35 PM

As far as I am aware you can do that but you need to check with VicRoads.

**ebxr8240** · 25-10-2010, 11:37 PM

Some time back we fitted an EB motor in TE Cortina.. We had to fit all the gear that came with EB engine including canister and cat.. Oh and at the time unleaded restrictor on fuel filler ...
I would get anything in writing and go back to the same inspector as they have different interpretation ..

fmc351 · 26-10-2010, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Some time back we fitted an EB motor in TE Cortina.. We had to fit all the gear that came with EB engine including canister and cat.. Oh and at the time unleaded restrictor on fuel filler ...
I would get anything in writing and go back to the same inspector as they have different interpretation ..

TE Cortina was built after 1972.

**ebxr8240** · 26-10-2010, 04:55 PM

SORRY TC XLE 1972 model...In any case the engines pollution gear had to stay...

T3man · 26-10-2010, 07:09 PM

Yes, that is correct ... because it was not pre-72 therefore the emission controls of the later of the two (car/engine) had to be retained. If it had been a 1971 Cortina you would have had to do nothing. Except of course the Engineer's report to verify the noise level compliance and mechanical integrity of the transplant.

4VCLEVO · 26-10-2010, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

Yes, that is correct ... because it was not pre-72 therefore the emission controls of the later of the two (car/engine) had to be retained. If it had been a 1971 Cortina you would have had to do nothing. Except of course the Engineer's report to verify the noise level compliance and mechanical integrity of the transplant.

What happened in 1972? I thought polution laws came in january 1974. Thats why the 1973 rpo83 XAGT's had factory holley carbs.

302 XC · 26-10-2010, 08:30 PM

Very interesting topic
I know there are different rulings in each state
But anyone wanna put an injected 8 in a say XP and see what hapens
I very much doubt that dropping an injected 8 into an XP would not result in some emmision issues
What about the new V8 into say a customline or mainline ???

T3man · 26-10-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4VCLEVO

What happened in 1972? I thought polution laws came in january 1974. Thats why the 1973 rpo83 XAGT's had factory holley carbs.

Because something happened in 1974 ... can not be the reason for something else to happen that preceeded it in time.

They had factory Holley carbs (jetted pretty lean) but they also had the very first primitive emission controls like PCV valve and intake air pre-heat. I think it was ADR27 that came into force Jan 1972. And ADR 27A (which was the big one) which came in a couple of years later. This included carbon canisters, fuel tank sealed systems, EGR, and idle down control and vacuum retard etc on some models.