SS vs XR8 and the winner is......

[blueoval]

I agree mik, only the pure performance junkies will want to test the handling to it's enth degree. Half of the purchasers will want to beat their mates in a traffic light duel and brag about it, the other half will want the in cabin space ship effect when commuting from A-B and feel like a king. About 5% of those groups combined will be pushing the handling limits on a dedicated track and 2% of that group will even notice the difference.

Most people I know will always ask the first question, how well does it go? i.e. how fast is it, how much power, or is it quick etc. An enthusiast may ask how well it handles but how many enthusiasts are going to test the handling limits of a VF on the street? Most potential purchasers will certainly test the power limits of the XR8 far more however which is an instant thrill rather than trying to find hills to test the handling!

[LoudPipes]

It wasn’t too long ago on this forum when almost all Aussie motoring journalists were regarded as bottom feeders.
Now they are professionals telling it as it is.
I can’t say I’m confused but I am amused.
Some members should lighten up a little and smile in the knowledge their chosen car offers what they’re after.
Whether it be a fast Falcon or the other brand.
Aussie car manufacturers have never really supplied anything that comes close to a total package and you can almost feel the long suffered inferiority complex in some because of it.

[mik]

it depends on what you call a total package, what is a total package ???
every one has their own idea on that.
for me powerful grand tourer that doesnt loosen your fillings every time you run over a pebble, its comfy , it goes like a cut cat , yet is smooth and docile if driven that way, stops well ,it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase, it is relatively cheap to own and service, looks good , sounds good, will push through a sweeper at frightening speeds, you can still chuck the family in and hang the speed boat or viscount off the back , where is it not the total package ???

[Lukeyson]

Originally Posted by mik

what is a total package ???

My wife asks me the same question all the time

[MethodX]

Enjoy both cars while we still have them.
Sure wont be the same once its all over.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by mik

it depends on what you call a total package, what is a total package ???
every one has their own idea on that.
for me powerful grand tourer that doesnt loosen your fillings every time you run over a pebble, its comfy , it goes like a cut cat , yet is smooth and docile if driven that way, stops well ,it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to purchase, it is relatively cheap to own and service, looks good , sounds good, will push through a sweeper at frightening speeds, you can still chuck the family in and hang the speed boat or viscount off the back , where is it not the total package ???

Got it in one.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Only problem I see with that chassis comparo is that it looks like the FGX wheelbase is much shorter than the Holden, when in reality the difference is 77mm. (just 2.6% shorter than the VF)

Does anyone the know weights of the 6.0 and Miami engines ?.. I would think they would be about the same....

Granted overhang does make a difference with weight distribution and the XR8 is a good 130kg heavier than the Redline, it will be interesting seeing them go head to head on a track with a good mix of tight bends and long straights.

As far as I know, both cars wear the same spec rubber 245 front/275 rear (just different brands)

SSV Redline 270kW (1731kg) 159kW/tonne 306Nm/tonne

FGX XR8 380kw (1861kg) 204kW/tonne 349Nm/tonne

Yep, it's gonna be a close one...................

I believe the N/A GM Smallblocks dryweight for some years (at least since LS1's) has been around 195 kg's with a flexplate fitted. The LS 7 was listed on the GM website at 206 kg's but I understand that included a lightweight clutch instead of a flexplate.
Also included in these weights I believe, were exhaust headers, covers and spark plugs, I think the alternator was included too, but I don't think the starter motor was included.

As far as the S/C Miami is concerned I've heard it's around 240 kg's.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Only problem I see with that chassis comparo is that it looks like the FGX wheelbase is much shorter than the Holden, when in reality the difference is 77mm. (just 2.6% shorter than the VF)

Does anyone the know weights of the 6.0 and Miami engines ?.. I would think they would be about the same....

Granted overhang does make a difference with weight distribution and the XR8 is a good 130kg heavier than the Redline, it will be interesting seeing them go head to head on a track with a good mix of tight bends and long straights.

As far as I know, both cars wear the same spec rubber 245 front/275 rear (just different brands)

SSV Redline 270kW (1731kg) 159kW/tonne 306Nm/tonne

FGX XR8 380kw (1861kg) 204kW/tonne 349Nm/tonne

Yep, it's gonna be a close one...................

Head to head at the track would be good

Maybe take an XR8 to nurburgring.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by mik

it depends on what you call a total package, what is a total package ???

A Mercedes-Benz AWD Twin Turbo AMG E63 if one was available here would be a good start for me.

A 4 Door M3 for shopping duties wouldn’t go astray either or maybe an Audi RS6 Wagon to take the dogs to the beach.

Originally Posted by Lukeyson

My wife asks me the same question all the time

Just lie to her about the package and hope she doesn’t know any better.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by 2242100

I believe the N/A GM Smallblocks dryweight for some years (at least since LS1's) has been around 195 kg's with a flexplate fitted. The LS 7 was listed on the GM website at 206 kg's but I understand that included a lightweight clutch instead of a flexplate.
Also included in these weights I believe, were exhaust headers, covers and spark plugs, I think the alternator was included too, but I don't think the starter motor was included.

As far as the S/C Miami is concerned I've heard it's around 240 kg's.

Wow, that's surprising. I really thought the alloy block Miami's would come in a little over 200kg, 240kg is not that much lighter than the iron block 5.4's !

Blame that supercharger hey....

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Honestly, all jokes aside I hope holden respond and do something special, for now tho XR8 is the king of the muscle available on the showroom floors.

There is nothing in Holden's arsenal (that they're prepared to put in an SS) that will match the 5.0L Miami. They won't drop the LSA into an SS.. The ONLY possible outcome is this:

GTS- Gets an even bigger engine- possible?? (or it gets tweaked)
Clubsport etc get the LSA. (Won't happen)
SS Gets the LS4 or whatever they're up to now.

What I think they will actually do? Massage the ECU, re-calibrate the transmission and try and help the LS breathe a bit better. Maybe good for 290-300Kw.

I just don't think Holden will cut the profit margins out of their Lineup to the extent they're going to need to in trying to beat the XR8.

What Ford did was outright Ballsy. The kind of performance they're offering at this price is simply unheard of.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by mik

it depends on what you call a total package, what is a total package ???
every one has their own idea on that.
for me powerful grand tourer that doesnt loosen your fillings every time you run over a pebble,

Is there any performance car that has been built in the last ten years that does not have compliant suspension? Even a 911 GT3, the more hard core version of the 911, is more supple than most would imagine. Suspension technology has come a long way in regards to just having short travel (like people that lower their Aussie cars too far and turn them into turds) shocks on overly stiff springs to prevent the short travel from bottoming. Even our little Mini Cooper S rollerskate rides okay. And we live in the country etc.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Wow, that's surprising. I really thought the alloy block Miami's would come in a little over 200kg, 240kg is not that much lighter than the iron block 5.4's !

Blame that supercharger hey....

Coyote 5L weighs about 200kg, im surprised all the supercharger gear has bumped that up so much

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by arronm

Head to head at the track would be good

Maybe take an XR8 to nurburgring.

Power to weight is important but not everything - just check Megane RS times at the ring .

[mik]

XR6 Martin it doesnt surprise me to much really, blowers are a fairly solid lump, from memory the blower off my 11L truck engine weighed 40 kg, it had double row bearings in it, and a fairly robust gear set to keep the rotors timed, it did not have a wet sump , you would expect one on a car that has to cope with probably a greater rev range to be built to a similar or better quality.

[Stefan]

So we need an article to tell us that a GT rebadged as an XR8 with a 335kw SC motor outperforms an SS commodore.

Funny thing is said XR8 also outperforms all our FPV GTs too.

XR8 is a performance car bargain

[2242100]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Coyote 5L weighs about 200kg, im surprised all the supercharger gear has bumped that up so much

It's can be difficult to find out the real weight of engines because generally it's hard to know what's included.
I'd heard the weight of the Coyote was around 200 kg's also and I've just looked up the weight of a Coyote crate engine (Ford Racing part details,tech notes).
It lists the engine weight at 444 pounds (around 201.4 kg's) so that's confirmed. However the package weighs 553 pounds and I can't see the crate weighing anywhere near 109 pounds.
It seems that in the package, a buyer gets the stainless steel exhaust headers, manual transmission engine harness and flywheel.
Not included I believe is an alternator and Mustang engine cover kit.
So perhaps that explains the difference.

[Bossxr8]

Coyote also uses a plastic inlet manifold, Miami is alloy. Plus top cover, supercharger, supercharger inlet etc.

[Struggo]

XR8 v SS-V

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bikt_wcuFHo#t=41

http://www.caradvice.com.au/326189/f...arison-review/

Balanced review. Happily park either car in my driveway

[graphicgoose]

Despite the 0-100 times seeming to be slow compared to prior testing, I actually think that was a pretty balanced and well rounded review. Their findings also line up very nicely with my own observations from driving a GT vs. a VF SS-V Redline.

[Falcon SXR8]

Wow Is that what the ssv looks like under the bonnet??? That is the most povo engine cover I have ever seen. Is there meant to be stickers or paint that has not been put on ??

[kypez]

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

Despite the 0-100 times seeming to be slow compared to prior testing, I actually think that was a pretty balanced and well rounded review. Their findings also line up very nicely with my own observations from driving a GT vs. a VF SS-V Redline.

Agreed. The tyres are what is killing it for the Falcon. I reckon with the same rubber, it would be interesting but thats unfair to the SSV as it wont be stock against stock. Holden have done the right thing and put better rubber on their performance cars.

[Falcon Coupe]

I'd like to see a test on a bigger track. The XR8 doesn't get to stretch it's legs.

On some corners the SS V Redline bogs down between first and second gear, and even walloping the throttle fails to produce a decent slide in

The Redline may have the handling but seems a little underwhelming otherwise.
Just looking at the air induction alone they are miles apart.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Struggo

XR8 v SS-V

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bikt_wcuFHo#t=41

http://www.caradvice.com.au/326189/f...arison-review/

Balanced review. Happily park either car in my driveway

Very disappointing that they didn't use the manual versions. A true
Aussie sports sedan is a manual, and a race track test can only be accomplished with a manual; not a taxi auto

[arronm]

Maybe , the auto VF did ok around the nurburg ring though.

[Dave R]

Finally, a review where the cars were actually driven. They've come upon literally every point I raised about these cars a number of pages back. "R Spec" is a slick name, but it was never going to be competitive. Handling isn't the FGX's party trick, I doubt any XR8 owners will be disappointed with the outcome. As Caradvice correctly stated, they're polar opposites. Grunt vs dynamic finesse.

[mattrobbo26]

Actually quite impressed with the lap time of the xr8. Everyone knows it's not a handling machine as Ford didn't have the budget to spend. To only come up 3tenths slower than the ssv which gets praised time and time again for it's handling ability. I'd rather take the 3 tenths slower around the track than the ssv's full second slower to 100.

[skoobysGT]

Originally Posted by Bucket

There is nothing in Holden's arsenal (that they're prepared to put in an SS) that will match the 5.0L Miami. They won't drop the LSA into an SS.. The ONLY possible outcome is this:

GTS- Gets an even bigger engine- possible?? (or it gets tweaked)

Very possible...

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...222-cts-v.html

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

"R Spec" is a slick name, but it was never going to be competitive.

Surely you jest??

In the context of the lap time comparison it was very competitive.

[XR Martin]

I find it ironic that certian people find 0-100 and 1/4mile performance unimportant because as they claim you can rarely use 100% throttle on the road.
Yet how often do you use 100% of a car's handling capability on the road also? On the Roundabout on your way to Woolies?

Also handling is probably something like 70% driver, 30% car anyway.

Im quite certian that Ricciardo in an base model Falcon would beat me around a track driving a GT or XR8