And it's gone....

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Time to get a new accountant..

Luxury car tax LCT is $57,466 but does not apply to commercial vehicles. The XR8 ute is classed a commercial vehicle just like Maloo, Super Pursuit etc and has no luxury car tax applicable.

The XR8, S/P, SSV, Maloo are not classed as commercial vehicles. Don't need a new a new accountant, you can check it with the ATO. You can use these vehicles for work purposes, you should keep a log book for the first 3 months though to ascertain usage percentages.

As for LCT, I'm sure it wasn't that that she was referring to. As I said, I can't recall what it was. I will be talking with her in the next few days, I will ask her then.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Also last year just under 35% of SS and SSVs were wagons, so I dont think Ford can ever catch up fully but there is big room for improvement.

What makes Holden's results more remarkable is the very popular V8 Calais V which must compete for the same Holden V8 buyer, you also have V8 Satesman and Caprice which are less of a threat to the SS twins. Having so much internal competition makes the overall sales of SS and SSV even more impressive from a V8-selling perspective and shows to me that there is still a market there.

Well then if the 'cheap' XR8 with the n/a Coyote motor materialises then the chances of Ford releasing a G8E (or similar) will be cranked up just a tad.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by TS50

Most people here are looking at this from only their own personal view, and not the view that cmpanies like Ford need to, i.e. the general buying public

+1...

[HSE2]

The issue here about past sales performance, i.e. damaged brand either perceived or real is not the reason for what we will see happen.

On this occasion the sales performance numbers will not give the correct conclusion on the fate of the XR8.

If that were a consideration then there are a couple of other omissions that should be made to the line up that I know are secure (this time) well before the XR8 name became a reason to question.

M, B said on record that Ford and FPV would work together to bring the best possible outcome to market. I don’t believe Ford think the XR8 is beyond repair. That is a sentiment, although justifiable, that seems to predominately live in the minds of enthusiasts.

One possible reason to drop the XR8 altogether would be for economic and responsibility reasons or to be politically correct moving forward.

Personally I don’t subscribe to this theory because it’s at odds with motorsport investment that we know will be ongoing in both Ute and V8 categories and other synergies that are working well for Ford in the US. We have to remember that this is a global Ford now.


In short, the reasoning and logic for what is happening can’t be derived by looking back but rather by looking forward.

[RG]

Originally Posted by TS50

I believe that people that read these forums are passionate and want the V8's and pperformance cars
but in the reality of the market, most people (mums and dads) buying cars are more worried about safety and luxury items
It turns out there is only a small percentage of peole that are enthusists
Look around at even people you know, must of them couldnt give a flying (something) if it had a V8 or not, most would rather something comfortable and economical
Most people here are looking at this from only their own personal view, and not the view that cmpanies like Ford need to, i.e. the general buying public

This.

Now let's be honest, how many of the members here who are so very passionate about the XR8 are in the position to actually go to a Ford dealer and purchase a brand new XR8?

There will be a few, but not many, and this is from a forum with a 95% member base who are enthusiasts.

[EB#]

With a quick look on Carpoint, one can see the following starting prices (July '10):
$48,000 drive away: brand new FG XR8
$42,000 drive away: brand new VE SS
With the Falcon priced that way, how do Ford expect to offload the last of the
Boss XR8's anyway....??

[flappist]

Originally Posted by EB92

With a quick look on Carpoint, one can see the following starting prices (July '10):
$48,000 drive away: brand new FG XR8
$42,000 drive away: brand new VE SS
With the Falcon priced that way, how do Ford expect to offload the last of the
Boss XR8's anyway....??

Seriously......

What percentage of SS or XR8 drivers would change teams for $6k?

Over 5 years it is $120/month difference is payments.

For a small group it may be relevent but XR8 and SS are not ordinary average family cars.
Only an enthusiast would buy a XR8 over a G6E or a SS over a V6 Berlina and the majority of enthusiasts are VERY one eyed.

[TS50]

Originally Posted by flappist

Seriously......

What percentage of SS or XR8 drivers would change teams for $6k?

Over 5 years it is $120/month difference is payments.

For a small group it may be relevent but XR8 and SS are not ordinary average family cars.
Only an enthusiast would buy a XR8 over a G6E or a SS over a V6 Berlina and the majority of enthusiasts are VERY one eyed.

Exactally, I for one wouldnt buy a SS over a XR8 even if there was $10k difference
but thats me

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by flappist

Seriously......

What percentage of SS or XR8 drivers would change teams for $6k?

Over 5 years it is $120/month difference is payments.

For a small group it may be relevent but XR8 and SS are not ordinary average family cars.
Only an enthusiast would buy a XR8 over a G6E or a SS over a V6 Berlina and the majority of enthusiasts are VERY one eyed.

Maybe not for $6K but if the Holden dealer also offers you $4k more trade-in such that your c/o is now a $10K difference that starts to make a big difference, especially while the economy is very soft or inconsistent b/w industries and even states. Then through in resale values down the track. Just about every XR8 ute I see is signed with some business &/or towing a tradies trailer while spotting an XR8 sedan is like bird watching for an endangered species. I wonder if the 5yr/xx% term is still the most common.

[EB#]

Originally Posted by flappist

Seriously......
What percentage of SS or XR8 drivers would change teams for $6k?
Over 5 years it is $120/month difference is payments.........

I agree that the die-hard red and blue bloods would not likely change teams
for that sort of money, but what about....
- Ford or Holden undecided's ?
- Ford enthusiasts open to change ?
- People who just want an aussie built/assembled V8 ?
- People who do consider price and value as upper on their list ?
- First time V8 buyers ?
- People or families on a budget, but want the V8 experience ?

Although I'm an avid Ford fan and a BA I6 driver at present, I do aspire to the 8 pots one day.
I actually find it a bit strange and a bit sort of disrespectful that Ford Aus can't
seem to be competitive at this time with the SS.
I reckon if Ford want my return business or brand loyalty down the track, they need to earn
it and $6k would be too blunt for me.

Agreed that they are certainly not average cars, and I do hope to see the
XR8 around for a long time to come..... long enough for me to save the
dough and be behind the wheel of one.

[SteveJH]

The question that need to be asked is. Do Holden actually make any money from Commodore sales?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The question that need to be asked is. Do Holden actually make any money from Commodore sales?

Not according to their P+L.....

[flappist]

Yes you have a lot of permutations but again....

When was the last time you heard anyone say, "I want a V8 and I don't care what sort it is" ?

V8 is no longer a valid choice as a tow vehicle or a requirement in a family car to have enough power to move the whole family and luggage.
Current 6 cylinders have more performance than V8s of just 10 years ago.

V8 Holden and V8 Falcon have become like Harley Davidson, if you have to ask why you will not understand the answer.

And like Harley, regardless of how good the opposition product is it is not Harley so it is not wanted.
Yes there are a few Harley riders who also own a sports bike or a Jap Cruiser but they are not common.

There are Rum drinkers and Bourbon drinkers.
There are AFL and NRL followers.
There are Harley and motorcycle enthusiasts.
There are boys and girls.

And there are Holden V8 and Ford V8 people.

Within all of these groups there are those who play on both sides but they are always a minority.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

The question that need to be asked is. Do Holden actually make any money from Commodore sales?

I'd say no to that. going on the loss they posted but i am not well versed on the money tree that holden think they are

Jason

[EB#]

Yep, Flappist, agreed with all that you have said and I do understand the HD analogy....
I guess V8 enthusiasts are indeed a minority group in the car market and Ford V8 enthusiasts
are a portion of that minority, so to speak. I guess also that we discuss V8 sales numbers that
are dwarfed by other makes and models anyway...?

So....from my initial post... how are Ford going to move these Boss XR8's off the lots with the new model around the corner, and their
Holden alternative undercutting them on price ?

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by EB92

how are Ford going to move these Boss XR8's off the lots with the new model around the corner, and their
Holden alternative undercutting them on price ?

You’ve nailed it on the head there. I think the key here is the mismanagement of the runout. FPV were bargaining on having Coyote by now but obviously there have been delays. Therefore they've had limited stock to sell over an extended period. I'm guessing they've figured, why discount now and then have no product to sell at all. Their plan will be to sell the cars slowly to the die hards for as much margin as possible. I'm sure once we see the new engines 5.4L BOSS prices will plummet.

In all reality what incentive is there to buy the current Falcon V8? You know what you're buying will soon be obsolete, and you're going to take a huge hit on resale also!

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Maybe not for $6K but if the Holden dealer also offers you $4k more trade-in such that your c/o is now a $10K difference that starts to make a big difference, especially while the economy is very soft or inconsistent b/w industries and even states. Then through in resale values down the track. Just about every XR8 ute I see is signed with some business &/or towing a tradies trailer while spotting an XR8 sedan is like bird watching for an endangered species. I wonder if the 5yr/xx% term is still the most common.

Bingo....I'm being offered high 30's for my Super Pursuit at Mitsubishi dealership's for a Triton 4 x 4 single or dual cab. The best Ford can do is offer me low 30's for a 4 x 4 ranger. Go figure, Ford obviously don't rate FPV's second hand unlike other manufacturers. All the more reason not to get into another Ford/FPV.

Right now I wouldn't care if an upcoming S/C XR8 was $40k, I still wouldn't buy one. I've bought 6 Ford's since 2005 - 2010 and 2011 will see me get rid the last one and have them all replaced with Mitsubishi's.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by GT Falcon

Bingo....I'm being offered high 30's for my Super Pursuit at Mitsubishi dealership's for a Triton 4 x 4 single or dual cab. The best Ford can do is offer me low 30's for a 4 x 4 ranger. Go figure, Ford obviously don't rate FPV's second hand unlike other manufacturers. All the more reason not to get into another Ford/FPV.

Ford would have a heap of used Falcons on the yard. Probably why they dont want to spend a heap getting another one. A Super Pursuit would be a novelty in a Mitsubishi used car yard. Ford would also have a better idea at what they'd get for one on the second hand market.

[Falc'man]

For the latest up-to-date info on this topic I advise anyone who is interested to consider this post. Read between the lines and it's all spelled out for us.

Originally Posted by HSE2

The issue here about past sales performance, i.e. damaged brand either perceived or real is not the reason for what we will see happen.

On this occasion the sales performance numbers will not give the correct conclusion on the fate of the XR8.

If that were a consideration then there are a couple of other omissions that should be made to the line up that I know are secure (this time) well before the XR8 name became a reason to question.

M, B said on record that Ford and FPV would work together to bring the best possible outcome to market. I don’t believe Ford think the XR8 is beyond repair. That is a sentiment, although justifiable, that seems to predominately live in the minds of enthusiasts.

One possible reason to drop the XR8 altogether would be for economic and responsibility reasons or to be politically correct moving forward.

Personally I don’t subscribe to this theory because it’s at odds with motorsport investment that we know will be ongoing in both Ute and V8 categories and other synergies that are working well for Ford in the US. We have to remember that this is a global Ford now.


In short, the reasoning and logic for what is happening can’t be derived by looking back but rather by looking forward.

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

For the latest up-to-date info on this topic I advise anyone who is interested to consider this post. Read between the lines and it's all spelled out for us.

I'm lazy... can you tell me what it means please?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Ford would have a heap of used Falcons on the yard. Probably why they dont want to spend a heap getting another one. A Super Pursuit would be a novelty in a Mitsubishi used car yard. Ford would also have a better idea at what they'd get for one on the second hand market.

Fair point, perhaps having one is a novelty in their yard. But July last year I got more for my Territory Ghia Turbo as a trade at a non-Ford dealer that what a Ford dealer was going to give me. I won't split hairs over $1000-$1500, but when we're talking $6-8K difference I don't have enough brand loyalty to stay loyal. Then there's the higher equipment/spec levels and the massive difference in warranty offered by the other manufacturer that sways the decision making process as well.

For me, Ford isn't offering enough to keep me interested. I'm not the only one losing interest either, as is reflected in their market share.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

For the latest up-to-date info on this topic I advise anyone who is interested to consider this post. Read between the lines and it's all spelled out for us.

One has to look back to make decisions for the future. You can derive from historic sales numbers the trend has been downwards, it would be hard to justify a business case for the XR8.

But then again we were all told the I6 was dead and was to be replaced with a V6. We've seen what's happened since that announcement was made.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by RG

This.

Now let's be honest, how many of the members here who are so very passionate about the XR8 are in the position to actually go to a Ford dealer and purchase a brand new XR8?

There will be a few, but not many, and this is from a forum with a 95% member base who are enthusiasts.

This is an interesting point. I’d say I’m one of those people who’d be described as an ‘XR8 Passionate’, but at the end of the day I understand the benefit of a new start. For example the “G Series” moniker seems to have breathed new life into the old Fairmont Ghia brand.

I guess my concern is that the XR becoming a ‘GS’ or sitting under the FPV banner means a price hike. An extra $10,000 for some stripes, nicer wheels and seats doesn’t get my blood racing. Holden have shown that there’s a market for an entry level V8 so lets hope Ford don’t put it in the too hard basket. While the XR6T ticks all the boxes performance wise, I think there are still people who want a V8, so it can’t be considered a substitute.

I don’t need a new car tomorrow (but the Coyote has my interest), if Ford price their V8 out of my reach I’d just wait for the discounting to start or buy second hand. Problem solved.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Boss315

This is an interesting point. I’d say I’m one of those people who’d be described as an ‘XR8 Passionate’, but at the end of the day I understand the benefit of a new start. For example the “G Series” moniker seems to have breathed new life into the old Fairmont Ghia brand.

I guess my concern is that the XR becoming a ‘GS’ or sitting under the FPV banner means a price hike. An extra $10,000 for some stripes, nicer wheels and seats doesn’t get my blood racing. Holden have shown that there’s a market for an entry level V8 so lets hope Ford don’t put it in the too hard basket. While the XR6T ticks all the boxes performance wise, I think there are still people who want a V8, so it can’t be considered a substitute.

I don’t need a new car tomorrow (but the Coyote has my interest), if Ford price their V8 out of my reach I’d just wait for the discounting to start or buy second hand. Problem solved.

And there lies the problem for Ford.
Most would be buyers now feel that 1) XR8 is is out of their reach or 2) XR6T is a better alternative.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And there lies the problem for Ford.
Most would be buyers now feel that 1) XR8 is is out of their reach or 2) XR6T is a better alternative.

I must be the odd man out. I think the current XR8 is priced within my reach (as opposed to the FPVs), but I'm holding out for a Coyote V8. Ford if you're listening, a 307Kw Mustang GT donk will suffice!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Boss315

I must be the odd man out. I think the current XR8 is priced within my reach (as opposed to the FPVs), but I'm holding out for a Coyote V8. Ford if you're listening, a 307Kw Mustang GT donk will suffice!

Sources suggest all Coyotes for Falcon will be S/C 5.0 in varying power levels.
An XR8 with that much torque on board will probably need Brembos as standard and a couple of other
upgrades like stronger gearboxes. I'm suspecting the price will be closer to the GS or around $55K-$58K.
How's that XR8 affordability look now if prices go in that direction?

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sources suggest all Coyotes for Falcon will be S/C 5.0 in varying power levels.
An XR8 with that much torque on board will probably need Brembos as standard and a couple of other
upgrades like stronger gearboxes. I'm suspecting the price will be closer to the GS or around $55K-$58K.
How's that XR8 affordability look now if prices go in that direction?

Makes you wonder how GMH makes it work on the SS & Ford on the XR6T (which could do with a brake upgrade). I wonder if it's an excuse to justify the extra coin or really needed. Either way, I wait with bated breath.

I've heard similar rumors about pricing, and to answer your question, if true, obviously I don't like Fords direction. It won’t see me buying an XR6T by default though.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Boss315

I must be the odd man out. I think the current XR8 is priced within my reach (as opposed to the FPVs), but I'm holding out for a Coyote V8. Ford if you're listening, a 307Kw Mustang GT donk will suffice!

And I wonder how many potential Phase 3 buyers held out for the new Phase 4.........

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by flappist

And I wonder how many potential Phase 3 buyers held out for the new Phase 4.........

If AFF was around back then, probably a few! Lol.

Besides it shouldn't be much longer now...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

And I wonder how many potential Phase 3 buyers held out for the new Phase 4.........

Probably the same ones that bought the RPO83 GT package
or the lucky Buggers that bought ZF Fairlanes with special hand built 351 4V engines...