The greatest ever Australian performance car - Page 6

au2000 · 14-05-2017, 10:21 PM

I'm blue through n through but tbh this ****ing contest is well and truly over, ford went out with what it believed was the best it could do with it's limited and to a extent non supported parts bin and gave us some incredible vehicles in the miami and turbo barra,
Holden has done the same technically with the release of the director and bathurst SS , hsv on the other hand has given it's fans the best it can produce to say good bye to it's range.

In the end what was their motivation? Ford had none, the falcon nameplate is dead and they want to sell mustangs and rangers, Holden's motivation? To somehow keep the commodore legacy on it's up coming fwd and use that to sell some.

HSV's motivation? To go out with a blast cause only god knows what they will sell in October.

I'm just glad I have my fgx turbo and my fg Miami.. My pieces of history for my son, I just hope the holden fans all get to do the same , my mate has missed out, had to pass up his SS for a family holiday and he is already regretting it,

Who's got the ultimate performance car? All of us that could buy one.. We are the lucky ones here, no matter what the badge says

**Grunter** · 15-05-2017, 03:08 PM

At least in the category for Australia's Best Looking Performance Car, it's a easy choice for me.

Express · 15-05-2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunter

At least in the category for Australia's Best Looking Performance Car, it's a easy choice for me.

Easy for me too, I'd go for the orange one.

.

arronm · 15-05-2017, 03:18 PM

Best looking AUS performance car

BENT_8 · 15-05-2017, 04:34 PM

That W1 is an ugly piece of ****, far too expensive and only just outruns a car which costs a 3rd of the price, who'd buy it?

What's that, its sold out, before release...

Must be people who like ugly pieces of **** that are over priced and not really that fast.

What's that, looks are subjective, they can ask as much as they want because there wont be another and there are no more tenths to be shaved by either company using locally assembled cars.

Right, so it would be fair to say it's expensive because it's the last of its kind, it's the most complete of it's kind and the quickest of it's kind and if you want one you pay for it.

Looks like we've come full circle then.
In 72 the P3 went out as the last of its kind, the most complete of it's kind and the quickest of it's kind and because of that you paid a premium if you bought it then or now.

Fast forward 46 years and HSV have provided the W1, the last of its kind, the most complete of its kind and the quickest of its kind, the closest either manufacturer has come to producing a road going track car in that time and it will command a premium wether you accept it or not.

It doesn't matter if you don't like it, if its overpriced or not overly quick for the asking price, it is the last, there will be no more.

As someone once said to me with regards to the P3, it might not be to your tastes, might not be as quick as modern cars and may be massively over valued, it is what it is, you either get it, or you don't.

My2c.

Chopped · 15-05-2017, 05:34 PM

This is basically Holden's version of the "GTHO"...they are just 40+ years late to the party.

My only hope is that future generations will even care.
Or will car ownership /driving be redundant and we just book self driving ride share electric vehicles to get around as we watch youtube cat videos.

BENT_8 · 15-05-2017, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

This is basically Holden's version of the "GTHO"...they are just 40+ years late to the party.

My only hope is that future generations will even care.
Or will car ownership /driving be redundant and we just book self driving ride share electric vehicles to get around as we watch youtube cat videos.

I agree that it is Holden's version of the GTHO but I think its a bit harsh to say they're 40 years late to the party.
When the supercar scare broke it brought to an end the reality of buying a race bread road car from the local dealership.
No one had a right of reply, Holden fans missed the V8 LJ and Chrysler fans missed the V8 Charger just like we missed out on what could have of been with the P4.
Would the P3 be as revered today if the P4 had been allowed to compete and win Bathurst 72?
Probably not as it would have been like comparing a P2 to a P3.
Fact is the P3 is what it is because it was the last of its kind.

Bureaucracy is what kept Holden from the party for 40yrs and now that there will be no more shots fired as in 72, they have had their right of reply.

HO 3 · 15-05-2017, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

This is basically Holden's version of the "GTHO"...they are just 40+ years late to the party.

My only hope is that future generations will even care.
Or will car ownership /driving be redundant and we just book self driving ride share electric vehicles to get around as we watch youtube cat videos.

Claytons HO is what I call the W1...............I do however admire HSVs bullish attitude in building it though. After all don't let a lack of common sense and relevance ever stop you from building 300 track focused production cars as a send off.

Cheers Mick

Express · 15-05-2017, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

This is basically Holden's version of the "GTHO"...they are just 40+ years late to the party.

Better late than never.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

My only hope is that future generations will even care.
Or will car ownership /driving be redundant and we just book self driving ride share electric vehicles to get around as we watch youtube cat videos.

Even when electric cars come into being it will still be a while after until fossil fuel propelled vehicles are totally banned from the road.

When that happens I'll do what I already get a lot of pleasure from and that's sitting in the shed with a few beers and just staring at my cars and by then it won't be long before I won't be here to care.

.

arronm · 15-05-2017, 05:53 PM

P3 wasnt cutting edge technology like the W1. Had leaf springs and continued all through the 70s, way to go ford.

Bossxr8 · 16-05-2017, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

P3 wasnt cutting edge technology like the W1. Had leaf springs and continued all through the 70s, way to go ford.

What exactly is cutting edge about the W1? Pushrods, superchargers and manual gearboxes are as old as the automobile itself. Torque vectoring has been around for years and carbon fibre is old tech really. Even the GTS-R had some back in 97. The engine is a decade old Corvette model no longer in production. None of it is cutting edge. Carbon fibre wheels on the Shelby GT350R is cutting edge for example. W1 has nothing other cars don't.

Wretched · 16-05-2017, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What exactly is cutting edge about the W1? Pushrods, superchargers and manual gearboxes are as old as the automobile itself. Torque vectoring has been around for years and carbon fibre is old tech really. Even the GTS-R had some back in 97. The engine is a decade old Corvette model no longer in production. None of it is cutting edge. Carbon fibre wheels on the Shelby GT350R is cutting edge for example. W1 has nothing other cars don't.

Pretty much every car baring the select few hyper cars then.

Simply put, there is no other Australian car that on a performance basis that can out do it, like it or lump it, Ford didn't have the $$ and did the best they could at the time.

Whitey-AMG · 16-05-2017, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What exactly is cutting edge about the W1? Pushrods, superchargers and manual gearboxes are as old as the automobile itself. Torque vectoring has been around for years and carbon fibre is old tech really. Even the GTS-R had some back in 97. The engine is a decade old Corvette model no longer in production. None of it is cutting edge. Carbon fibre wheels on the Shelby GT350R is cutting edge for example. W1 has nothing other cars don't.

I think what he's trying to say is that in regards to "local" performance car offerings - HSV have thrown the kitchen sink at it in terms of best available tech to suit.
Anyways - I still don't get all the butt hurt saltiness over this......

Eaturbo · 15-05-2017, 07:59 PM

HSV's GTS W1 run 380 odd RWKW in motors test which is not too bad. Not far off 400rwkw which is no dam slouch. It's a serious engine when you think about it, not many companies run dry sump engines with fully forged internals. If your going to build a final balls out car than this is what you would build and HSV can stand back and be proud and say well we gave it all we could and we delivered a car which we can honestly say is as good as it gets for the type of car we build. Good works lads and you can hold your head high and be proud to be Australian.

roddy1960 · 15-05-2017, 08:55 PM

G'day .. I'll make it easy for those who can't see the woods for the trees..

1971 GTHO...is the greatest ever Australian performance car of all time...
..It is the original King and what all future Aussie performance cars were compared to.....Long Live The King... cos it will always to those who know...No other Australian assembled/manufactured car has had the same impact for as long as it has...That's undeniable....

The Barra Turbo 2002-2016 is the greatest ever entirely built Australian performance engine of all time.. Still kicking most modern V8 ***** regularly not least HSV's..
End of story...

1967 XR GT...is the most important Australian performance car of all time because it's why we had real Aussie performance cars in the first place..
Start of story...literally..
.Cheers Rod..

**DFB FGXR6** · 15-05-2017, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

1967 XR GT...is the most important Australian performance car of all time because it's why we had real Aussie performance cars in the first place..
Start of story...literally..
.Cheers Rod..

Very good point. The XR GT is where it ALL began and set the template for the quintessential Aussie muscle car. Sure there have been variations, but 4 doors, RWD, V8 engine and sporty styling was born with the XR GT.

Maybe we are looking at the "Greatest Ever" from the wrong angle?

Sar4890 · 15-05-2017, 09:52 PM

Its only been very recently that the xr gt got the accolades it deserved both in terms collectability and status in the gt world.

Express · 15-05-2017, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day .. I'll make it easy for those who can't see the woods for the trees..

1971 GTHO...is the greatest ever Australian performance car of all time...
..It is the original King and what all future Aussie performance cars were compared to.....Long Live The King... cos it will always to those who know...No other Australian assembled/manufactured car has had the same impact for as long as it has...That's undeniable....

The Barra Turbo 2002-2016 is the greatest ever entirely built Australian performance engine of all time.. Still kicking most modern V8 ***** regularly not least HSV's..
End of story...

1967 XR GT...is the most important Australian performance car of all time because it's why we had real Aussie performance cars in the first place..
Start of story...literally..
.Cheers Rod..

Great or more importantly fondness for particular cars depends on the era you grew up in.

For fellows half my age it’s more likely to be the HSV’s and turbo XR’s from the ‘90’s onwards that turn them on and that's if they are at all interested in the local product.

And seriously no one compares their modern day performance cars against a 1971 model regardless of how iconic the HO may be.

And that’s the thing, it’s an iconic car, a car with a huge place in Aussie car history but that doesn’t make it the best performance car and certainly not by today’s standards.

And to put things into perspective it won Bathurst once, the A9X did it twice and in ’79 it won by six laps and set a new lap record on the last, that’s pretty flash in my books.

GT’s, Torana’s and Charger’s were all the rage when I was growing up along with Cortina’s, Capri’s, Pacer’s and Monaro’s and my mates and myself owned them, argued incessantly in the pub about them and raced each other on weekends in them and I can tell you a well sorted Charger or Pacer was one of the hardest things to beat on the street.

The HO and GT’s were big, loud and heavy for the day and unless you did a bit of work to them they could be left floundering until you started to wind your car off the clock and they’d fly pass but not all my mates who tried that trick survived.

The best performance Fords and Holdens are the latest models, the older cars are just great memories that were great for their times but those times are long gone.

Anyway who says real performance cars have to be V8’s?

Holden homologated the EH S4 for production racing in 1963, my father owned one in the ‘60’s and I can still remember his mates drooling over it and the Cortina GT was sitting in the other corner.

The V8 in the XRGT was just another stepping stone in the evolution of performance cars as are turbos and blowers and a whole host of go faster, stop quicker and handle better improvements plus throwing in a bit of luxury also doesn’t go astray.

I can still remember all those Aussie V8’s being blown away on the track by the Sierras and GT-R’s before they were pushed aside so Ford and Holden could again dominate in local racing.

As far as I’m concerned the best Aussie performance cars are the modern ones, the rest are history.

.

BENT_8 · 16-05-2017, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

And to put things into perspective it won Bathurst once, the A9X did it twice and in ’79 it won by six laps and set a new lap record on the last, that’s pretty flash in my books.

And to go one further, it was beaten in the 72 race by a 6cyl Torana.

It certainly wasn't cutting edge, it was just better than what anyone else had to offer at the time, much like the W1 is today albeit with 40+ years of chassis development to make it better in every aspect of performance and not just sheer grunt.

MethodX · 16-05-2017, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day .. I'll make it easy for those who can't see the woods for the trees..

1971 GTHO...is the greatest ever Australian performance car of all time...
..It is the original King and what all future Aussie performance cars were compared to.....Long Live The King... cos it will always to those who know...No other Australian assembled/manufactured car has had the same impact for as long as it has...That's undeniable....

The Barra Turbo 2002-2016 is the greatest ever entirely built Australian performance engine of all time.. Still kicking most modern V8 ***** regularly not least HSV's..
End of story...

1967 XR GT...is the most important Australian performance car of all time because it's why we had real Aussie performance cars in the first place..
Start of story...literally..
.Cheers Rod..

Why all the bs?
All the Aussie muscle cars deserve respect, even if they aren't Fords.

roddy1960 · 16-05-2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

Why all the bs?
All the Aussie muscle cars deserve respect, even if they aren't Fords.

G'day, Where did I say I didn't respect some fantastic cars built here that aren't Fords....There are some bloody great Holdens including the famous 327 Monaro's , the L34 Toranas , the incredible A9X ...several Commodores .. Then the mighty Chrysler Chargers that were just awesome...and still head turners..Love them..

Like I said...IN MY OPINION , not that too many care ( fair enough) it's the GTHO as the stand out performance car for me because so many of us still love those beasts nearly five decades on....It just happens to be a Ford, and special mention re questions of Aussie engines (Barra Turbo) , that re set the bar in 2002 for Australian powerplants...also a Ford product and a real soft spot for the sometimes overlooked '67 XR GT that was a catalyst to kick start the good natured excrement stirring tribal war between the Red and Blue camps that we've enjoyed so much over half a century so far .

Just how it is for me...Sorry if some AFF'ers think it looks like bias...
I think all of us agree though that all those fast Fords , Holdens , Chryslers , we have mentioned in this thread are going to be fondly remembered and cherished by those lucky enough to have owned or experienced them..No doubt the GTSR W1 is going to be one of those as time passes...

We might have the Mustang now , the Corvette's or Camaro's , Dodge offerings reported to be coming later on but none of them will have the same Aussie influence that the old Aussie dinosaurs that are the guts of this somewhat emotive thread.....Gone but never really forgotten though regardless of which badge they wear...

Cheers Rod...

roddy1960 · 16-05-2017, 08:25 PM

G'day all....Does anyone recall this episode of Marque from 38 years ago ?
There are some things that kinda/sorta relate to all this early in the episode with the Ford v Holden stuff and why performance was so important to both companies in the 60's and 70's...

The rest of the episode features how we incorporated other things to do with safety and structural integrity into cars that wasn't just about how fast they were..
Peter Wherrett fell off the perch a fair time ago now but Torque and Marque (ABC TV) showed he was a pretty good motoring journo...... and a bit of a fashionista was old Pete
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F-4...o#t=129.096935
..Cheers Rod..

CoupeKing · 15-05-2017, 10:18 PM

It has to be the best performing at that price, and easily - no excuses.

**Rallye Sport** · 15-05-2017, 10:28 PM

Love the XR GT but what about the Cortina GT500 before that? Our first homologation car built for one purpose, to win Bathurst, which it did... We're all clutching at straws, feel free to 'quote' me with a different opinion.

arronm · 15-05-2017, 11:36 PM

Best post in this thread so far. Hit the nail on the head on all accounts. Us 50+ can remember them all. How lucky are we.

HO 3 · 16-05-2017, 12:57 AM

At the end of the day individual opinions matter little.............FME the shear weight of historical achievements are the heavy weights that will I nspire future savvy buyers.

Cheers Mick

arronm · 16-05-2017, 03:16 PM

All the safty technology and dry sump, titanium engine components. Normal cars don't have that.

Leaf springs. Still makes me laugh. They belong on a horse and cart.

FoureverFord · 16-05-2017, 04:14 PM

Anybody ever heard of an Australian designed & built car, called the Bolwell Nagari, could be fitted with Ford or holden Motors, the MKVIII, you could put a 351 cleveland into it, go like a scalded cat, scream baby scream. body was fibreglass & came in a kit, you could build it yourself. They closed down in 79, but came back in 2009, I just had a look at their website, their latest Nagari 300 is the same price as the last commodore W1 thingy, I rather have the Bolwell, much better looking machine, stand out from the crowd. As a commodore is just a coomodore looks like everyone elses commodore, it's just a family sedan with stripes & big wheels & it's got a V8. Boring

Nikked · 16-05-2017, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoureverFord

it's just a family sedan with stripes & big wheels & it's got a V8. Boring

Yeah, pretty sure Falcon GT owners yawn when the go for a squirt, I gotta take No-doze when i drive my XR8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

carbon fibre is old tech really. None of it is cutting edge. Carbon fibre wheels on the Shelby GT350R is cutting edge for example.

So... is carbon fiber cutting edge or not? Or only cutting edge on a Ford

Bossxr8 · 17-05-2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yeah, pretty sure Falcon GT owners yawn when the go for a squirt, I gotta take No-doze when i drive my XR8

So... is carbon fiber cutting edge or not? Or only cutting edge on a Ford

No one has ever fitted carbon fibre wheels before. Carbon fibre panels/parts have been around since maybe the 70's? And as I said carbon fibre rear wing on the GTSR 20 years ago. But no one has been able to get the wheels made from carbon until now.