Commodore Anyone?

[Bossxr8]

Interesting comments from Bob Graziano today, he said that from 2016/7 the Commodore will be based on the Malibu global platform, and he said it like it was fact. I don't know wether he knows that for a fact or it was just his educated opinion but it was interesting to hear.

[block58]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Interesting comments from Bob Graziano today, he said that from 2016/7 the Commodore will be based on the Malibu global platform, and he said it like it was fact. I don't know wether he knows that for a fact or it was just his educated opinion but it was interesting to hear.

It has been confirmed that the next "Commodore" badged vehicle will be based on a global GM platform, so that would make sense. Also the size of the current Malibu and the fact that Holden are introducing the Malibu to the market are also pointers.

[Bossxr8]

I thought the Alpha RWD platform was also an option.

[stevz]

I can't see it (fwd Commodore) happening, as they would be well aware of the extreme backlash and irreparable damage it would cause to the nameplate.
If true, they may as well pack up and leave after the last VF rolls off the line.
I guess time will tell....

[burnz]

Originally Posted by stevz

I can't see it (fwd Commodore) happening, as they would be well aware of the extreme backlash and irreparable damage it would cause to the nameplate.
If true, they may as well pack up and leave after the last VF rolls off the line.
I guess time will tell....

the electric commo is FWD, that's it.

super epsilon II is the next platform as far as I know.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Well wanting to buy Australian made cars I will only have two brands to choose from. I'd rather be part of the cardigan brigade than associate myself with knuckle draggers.

What does this make me....I own a Commodore.....I own a Fairlane....I own a wogbox..... I do a lot of work with Toyotas.....

A decent knuckle dragging wog cardigan wearer?

Don't tarnish everyone with the same brush, just because of a small minority....

[ltd]

Do any of you fellow members really think Holden isn't going to follow suit after Ford regarding manufacturing in Oz?
Really?

Firstly, the components suppliers are not going to be able to supply the same products at the same prices due to economies of scale, so the cost of commodore goes up.

Secondly, Ford are copping criticism all over the media at the moment for receiving 1 billion dollars over the last 10 years of taxpayer funds. No one has mentioned Holden has received 2.5 billion of taxpayer funds over the same period.

Thirdly, Ford auto workers are on an average of 100-110K pa; Holden workers are on a massive 120-130K pa, and the union will have less car factories to be active in so you can bet there'll be more stoppages at Holden.

Fourthly we have a government who are dictated to be John Mc 457 Visa that has since coming to power stopped buying Australian Made cars.

Finally, you've had Bob Graziano and the guy at GM in the USA talking about the SS being produced in the USA from 2016 on, do we need a slide rule to work it out?

Holdens recent reaffirmation of production beyond 2016 is merely because we have a stupid government led by an even stupider twit who only knows how to remedy things by throwing money at it. Holden is on the proverbial government teat. Just last year Govco gave them 200 million and that same day, all the staff got a 6% pay increase every year for the next three years. Trust me, Holdens business case is worse than Fords. Should I care about a sheltered workshop like Holden where no ordinary person can get a job unless they know some union bum who's never done an honest days work in his life? Hell no. To bastardise a Chopper Reid saying; "Holden can Get ********d"

Ford went first due to pressure from Detroit where after 14 consecutive quarters of profit Ford management are culling any loss leader that can detract from the brands miracle survival through the GFC when GM and Chrysler received government bailouts and Ford didn't because of their prudent strategy. Their 14 profitable quarters is partly because people hate companies that cannot survive without government support - as evidenced here.

I'll buy a Fusion, an F250 and a mustang simply because all this time, Ford Australia has been part of Ford America and whilst I feel bad for those about to lose their jobs- Ford workers have foregone pay-rises and the largesse of Holden to keep their jobs; I still love a brand which was able to manage itself beyond a financial crisis and design cars that people want to buy. Ford all the way baby.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by ltd

Thirdly, Ford auto workers are on an average of 100-110K pa; Holden workers are on a massive 120-130K pa,

120-130K pa for a production line worker? Where did you get these figures from?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by stevz

120-130K pa for a production line worker? Where did you get these figures from?

I would say he mean's O/T included, let's say $50 an hr (avg) 50 hr week +, could easily add up to that amount.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by ltd

Do any of you fellow members really think Holden isn't going to follow suit after Ford regarding manufacturing in Oz?
Really?

Finally, you've had Bob Graziano and the guy at GM in the USA talking about the SS being produced in the USA from 2016 on, do we need a slide rule to work it out?

Dan Amman GM VP and CFO was on a podcast recently and stated that GM prefer to setup and manufacture near their customers and build the car in a location that has the same currency as their customers to avoid unknowns like international currency fluctuations and provide some stability for their operations. This is a global policy of GM and isn't consistent with your theory of GMH. He went on public record to say this, so I doubt he decided to just make this stuff up.

Holdens export programs for Commodore are small and clearly about meeting volumes, so the Elizabeth plant remains viable. Not looking at massive exports everywhere. I would well imagine if the SS or Police programs do really take off, that NA production is likely. I'm equally sure that GMH would be given some niche to fill with its products so it wasn't adversely affected. This again, is consistent with the GM global view and what executives with GM have been trying to do for Holden in the past few years.

His comments on decontenting cars and what that leads to in respect of meeting customer expectations was interesting too, given how often Ford Australia tried this trick. Right up to this year in fact.

The podcast is worth a listen. I think if you reflect on what he says you get a sense of what VF Commodore and Holdens place in Australia is about from GM's point of view. My take is if they can find a way to get both sides of politics to suppport them, Holden isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.

In the end because one American company has a policy at the moment to pull the pin on factories around the world (Ford) we dont need to wish it on their competitor in the form of GM. Especially when Australian jobs are at stake.
http://www.autoline.tv/show/1717

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Dan Amman GM VP and CFO was on a podcast recently and stated that GM prefer to setup and manufacture near their customers and build the car in a location that has the same currency as their customers to avoid unknowns like international currency fluctuations and provide some stability for their operations. This is a global policy of GM and isn't consistent with your theory of GMH. He went on public record to say this, so I doubt he decided to just make this stuff up.

His comments on decontenting cars and what that leads to in respect of meeting customer expectations was interesting too, given how often Ford Australia tried this trick. Right up to this year in fact.

The podcast is worth a listen. I think if you reflect on what he says you get a sense of what VF Commodore and Holdens place in Australia is about from GM's point of view. My take is if they can find a way to get both sides of politics to suppport them, Holden isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.

http://www.autoline.tv/show/1717

Toyota have said similar things, they like to build where their customer are, and like to source components where they build their cars - also because of currency.

I think Toyota will build Rav4 here, but they have been talking about a new local product for a thousand years.

[BossBrand]

I just want a quality Aussie made rwd performance car! I have owned fords and holdens and love them both for different reasons.. Now I guess it'll be a FG3? GT next and then after that a Holden something!

[Terror_Tree]

I have never owned a holden and never will. My next new car will be a Ford, or a BMW if I win lotto.

[BossBrand]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Dan Amman GM VP and CFO was on a podcast recently and stated that GM prefer to setup and manufacture near their customers and build the car in a location that has the same currency as their customers to avoid unknowns like international currency fluctuations and provide some stability for their operations. This is a global policy of GM and isn't consistent with your theory of GMH. He went on public record to say this, so I doubt he decided to just make this stuff up.

Holdens export programs for Commodore are small and clearly about meeting volumes, so the Elizabeth plant remains viable. Not looking at massive exports everywhere. I would well imagine if the SS or Police programs do really take off, that NA production is likely. I'm equally sure that GMH would be given some niche to fill with its products so it wasn't adversely affected. This again, is consistent with the GM global view and what executives with GM have been trying to do for Holden in the past few years.

His comments on decontenting cars and what that leads to in respect of meeting customer expectations was interesting too, given how often Ford Australia tried this trick. Right up to this year in fact.

The podcast is worth a listen. I think if you reflect on what he says you get a sense of what VF Commodore and Holdens place in Australia is about from GM's point of view. My take is if they can find a way to get both sides of politics to suppport them, Holden isn't going anywhere, anytime soon.

In the end because one American company has a policy at the moment to pull the pin on factories around the world (Ford) we dont need to wish it on their competitor in the form of GM. Especially when Australian jobs are at stake.
http://www.autoline.tv/show/1717

Makes sense.. give local consumers what they want.. Not this global one bullcrap we're about to have dished down our throats

[atmoxr6]

aren't holden goin to drop the commodore nameplate after VF. malibu is being released midyear, assembley of malibu in oz after commodores gone mabey ?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by stevz

120-130K pa for a production line worker? Where did you get these figures from?

Have a friend who when living in Adelaide for 5 years, worked at Holden for 3 of them.
He said he was on around $120K (in 2004) and had a certain amount of overtime guaranteed to him every week. Even if there was no need for overtime, he would have to show up, clock in and find something to do (like sweep the floor - look busy).
This mate is an auto electrician by trade and has had to work hard since entering the work force. He said compared to any other place he's worked that Holden are the laziest bunch of people he's ever met. He was routinely told to slow down. With a mortgage he managed to stay there for three years, but frustrated he left Holden and took a massive pay cut to work elsewhere. He was also a die hard Holden fan until he worked for them.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

so the Elizabeth plant remains viable.

Are you sure about that?
Holden has not made a profit in the last 3 years and has had to rely heavily on government bailouts to balance its books.
Whilst the Holden and GM CEO's may wax idiotic about what they'd like to do unfortunately the board makes the decisions and anything that is losing money continuously will get the chop. Just look at Ford Australia.
Didn't Bob Graziano make mention of the falcons future beyond 2016 at the AIMS last year?
And what has happened since?
Take a wholistic view of the 5 factors I have included in my original post and you can see what is conspiring to ruin the auto industry in this country. Furthermore, look at the public perception of automakers and it's only getting worse.

[GT-spec15]

Holden's local production future is far from concrete over the medium-long term, but they will be around for some years yet.

As I see it we have a few options now the Falcon has been given an end date:

1. If you are a Falcon nut, your only option is to keep that FG in good shape and hang onto it forever.

2. If you are a Ford nut, it looks like you'll have other options over the next few years, and the future is bright.

3. If you must have a big Aussie sedan and want to support local manufacturing, Holden is waiting for you.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ltd

Thirdly, Ford auto workers are on an average of 100-110K pa; Holden workers are on a massive 120-130K pa, and the union will have less car factories to be active in so you can bet there'll be more stoppages at Holden.

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have read on this forum. On what planet do production workers even get within half of those figures you have pulled from your rear.

And none of us have worked overtime in at least 5 years, there has been none to speak of. Even in a good year if we had overtime regularly we would still struggle to pull in 65k.

[eb2fairmont]

If you think of the salary oncosts and super its not that far from the mark. The total cost of employment would be in that ballpark.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have read on this forum. On what planet do production workers even get within half of those figures you have pulled from your rear.

And none of us have worked overtime in at least 5 years, there has been none to speak of. Even in a good year if we had overtime regularly we would still struggle to pull in 65k.

Thanks for confirming that, its exactly what I thought.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have read on this forum. On what planet do production workers even get within half of those figures you have pulled from your rear.

And none of us have worked overtime in at least 5 years, there has been none to speak of. Even in a good year if we had overtime regularly we would still struggle to pull in 65k.

As per the comment few above , add in the hidden costs of employment,not so much the take home pay,which with ,super soon to be 12 %,holiday pay,sickies,compo,long service leave,which is prorata at 8 years,it works out about minimum 30 % on top of take home pay .....
Long service leave ,after 10 years is 3 months paid leave
Then add in sickies if they roll over ,after 10 years , theres another many weeks paid leave

This is what many people don't get or see as a business cost ,and wonder why businesses are struggling to stay alive .....

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

As per the comment few above , add in the hidden costs of employment,not so much the take home pay,which with ,super soon to be 12 %,holiday pay,sickies,compo,long service leave,which is prorata at 8 years,it works out about minimum 30 % on top of take home pay .....
Long service leave ,after 10 years is 3 months paid leave
Then add in sickies if they roll over ,after 10 years , theres another many weeks paid leave

This is what many people don't get or see as a business cost ,and wonder why businesses are struggling to stay alive .....

Never heard of being able to roll sickies over.....The 2nd last place I worked for, I was there for 7 years, then there was a change of owner ship....Lost all my sickies upon ownership transfer....(Had 3 sick days off in the 7 years)....Mayeb I should see the boss and buck up about my lost sick pay....

Long service pro rata starts after 7 years....Some industries start pro rata after 10 years....

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have read on this forum. On what planet do production workers even get within half of those figures you have pulled from your rear.

And none of us have worked overtime in at least 5 years, there has been none to speak of. Even in a good year if we had overtime regularly we would still struggle to pull in 65k.

Not trying to start you the figure I quoted was what Ross Greenwood was saying from his discussions with Bob Graziano.

I do know for a fact though what Pascal told me about his time at Holden a few years ago.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

As per the comment few above , add in the hidden costs of employment,not so much the take home pay,which with ,super soon to be 12 %,holiday pay,sickies,compo,long service leave,which is prorata at 8 years,it works out about minimum 30 % on top of take home pay .....
Long service leave ,after 10 years is 3 months paid leave
Then add in sickies if they roll over ,after 10 years , theres another many weeks paid leave

This is what many people don't get or see as a business cost ,and wonder why businesses are struggling to stay alive .....

And whats 30% of 50k, a bit more than 15k, so its exactly around the 65k I quoted. My dad was a production engineer for Ford and even he never pulled in 6 figure salaries, so it's laughable that anyone thinks a production worker could pull in that sort of coin.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I thought the Alpha RWD platform was also an option.

I think they're considering a strategy almost reverse of the Camry/Aurion. Rather than one model with 2 names they want 2 models with 1 name. A base model FWD Camry competitor and a V8 RWD sports sedan both called Commodore. I think the RWD's would be imported from the US though.

[BENT_8]

My best mate is a GMH line worker of 25 years, I know for a fact he takes home around $1100p/w for a 5 day week.
Until Last fortnight he was on 4 day weeks, but went back into full swing for the VF ramp up.

[GT-spec15]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

If you think of the salary oncosts and super its not that far from the mark. The total cost of employment would be in that ballpark.

The comment was that workers are "On $110k per year".

This sort of statement would be referring to base salary - not including super, benefits, sick leave, parking permits, cost of Christmas parties and so on.

[Polyal]

I call bs...no way a line worker is on 70k+. A start up automotive engineer is on that. True tradies can earn good coin but not in auto unless your gtting into management.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have read on this forum. On what planet do production workers even get within half of those figures you have pulled from your rear.

And none of us have worked overtime in at least 5 years, there has been none to speak of. Even in a good year if we had overtime regularly we would still struggle to pull in 65k.

There was probably a time, maybe back in the 60’s, when Australia auto workers were overpaid. And the union resistance to new technologies during the 70’s & 80’s probably hurt.
But that is a long time in the past.
I'm not a big fan of some unions’ tactics, but ultimately they can only enforce inefficient practices where the profit exists. The screws have been on this industry for a long time, with closure a perennial threat, I doubt there is much inefficiency left. (Except that caused by falling production numbers.)

As for people that keep saying “well Holden will close too,” if they helps you sleep at night then go for it. But at this stage the FACTS are that from November 2016 no Australians will be employed building Fords, yet there will be Australians building Holden Commodores.

To be honest I am more than just a little fed up by all the whingers who want to whine about Ford axing the Falcon and ceasing production in Australia, but then go on to say that they will happily buy whatever imported box Ford want to sell. THAT, right THERE, is the very reason for Ford’s decision.
I bought my daughter a Ford Focus because it was a Ford, but my loyalty to Ford derives from the Falcon, and without that why wouldn’t I look at any one of the Plethora of small-mid-sized FWD 4’s?

Honestly? My sincere hope is that after 2016, Ford sales in Australia go straight down the toilet and STAY there. Why? Because I hope that will give GMH pause everytime THEY consider abandoning Australia.