VE driven! - Page 3

stevz · 06-08-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kachow

Hi guys...first post here.
I honestly believe Ford have some catching up to do...from an appearance point of view anyway...

I would agree. All of a sudden the BA XR looks very plain after seeing that.

Aeron · 06-08-2006, 02:53 PM

I quite like the look of the VE SS. I also like how far forward the front wheels are. Very BMW.

Kachow · 06-08-2006, 03:08 PM

Well, I think both Ford Design and Holden Design teams have done well in the last decade....and continue to gain recognition on the world map.
The BA was "a very good save" after the AU, and the new VE is just world class IMO.

Good to see both companies pushing each other hard. I hope the new Ford platform is "new" enough to compete.

**PepeLePew** · 06-08-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kachow

Hi guys...first post here.
I honestly believe Ford have some catching up to do...from an appearance point of view anyway...

Im not sure that pic is a valid comparison. VE pic seems to be an artists rendition....

Tint the crap out of the BA's windows, drop the suspension like the VE's pic, put the biggest wheel option on it, and meanwhile wonder why this particular XR pictured has flat sills when the actual car doesnt from factory? Also, make it an XR8 as thats its direct competitor for some of that bonnet bulge lovin

Me thinks yes, VE does date BA/BF, as you'd expect, but this particular visual comparison isnt pitched fairly.

Kachow · 06-08-2006, 03:44 PM

Point taken Pepe....but I still see the VE proportions as vast step beyond.
BF is good......but it just looks old all of a sudden.

Wheels and glass altered as suggested.

stevz · 06-08-2006, 03:56 PM

I like the way the VE slopes forward. It gives it a mean and aggressive look.
One thing I can't help notice about the BA is that it's mid section/roofline looks like a bubble in comparison.

Bossxr8 · 06-08-2006, 04:06 PM

Fords 6 cylinders are better than Holdens, Holdens V8's are better than Fords. Has anything really changed. The Alloytec is still coping critisism for being torqueless and poor sounding. All the extra weight of the VE makes the lack of torque worse.

Interesting fact, the BF Falcon 6 makes as much torque at 1500rpm than the Holden 180 Alloytec does at its peak.

Bossxr8 · 06-08-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

I like the way the VE slopes forward. It gives it a mean and aggressive look.

I disagree, it makes the back sit skyhigh over the wheels. Have a look at a base model with small wheels from the side at it looks stupid. You could fit your head in the gap between the rear tyre and wheel arch.

ltd · 06-08-2006, 05:03 PM

Agree Boss, I have seen a base spec car and it looks like something from that cartoon whacky races. The VE better hope that it is as good as Holden thinks, or it will destroy holden. Whilst I agree it is a vast improvement on the VZ, the billion dollars has been wasted on useless crap as far as I'm concerned. There is no discernable difference between the BF and VE that makes the VE streets ahead, and the interiors are much nicer than VZ yet somewhat lacking in the povvo pack models. Engines and drivetrains are a huge disappointment for the povvo pack models; models which are destined to make up for 70% of sales. VE looks nice but the danger is the BF will be able to be discounted to fleets whereas the holden won't have as much wiggle room. This could mean the mainstay of Holden ie fleets, could take the lions share of sales from holden to others like toyota, ford and others. With the proliferation of novated leasing, Holden and ford are becoming less and less the car of choice for employees who instead prefer to go for euros. This will definately hurt holden more than ford as the holden has a huge break even point to meet, whereas ford have already passed theirs.
I would have expected a world class car for the investment, and a car completely ahead of ford in terms of refinement, looks, fuel economy and power. Best way to describe it is that Ford are not in the unenviable position that they were when the VT came out.

Kachow · 06-08-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

I have seen a base spec car and it looks like something from that cartoon whacky races

Doesn't look as good as the upspec models....but looks ok.
Hardly cartoonish ???

Can anyone confirm that the new Falcon will get a platform with the same dimensional dynamics as the new VE ???
Is it true it's going to be a modified BA platfrom ?

stevz · 06-08-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I disagree, it makes the back sit skyhigh over the wheels. Have a look at a base model with small wheels from the side at it looks stupid. You could fit your head in the gap between the rear tyre and wheel arch.

Here is a base model VE. You would have to have a very small head to fit under that wheel arch.
EDIT: posted the same pic by coincidence!

**Polyal** · 06-08-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Agree Boss, I have seen a base spec car and it looks like something from that cartoon whacky races. The VE better hope that it is as good as Holden thinks, or it will destroy holden. Whilst I agree it is a vast improvement on the VZ, the billion dollars has been wasted on useless crap as far as I'm concerned. There is no discernable difference between the BF and VE that makes the VE streets ahead, and the interiors are much nicer than VZ yet somewhat lacking in the povvo pack models. Engines and drivetrains are a huge disappointment for the povvo pack models; models which are destined to make up for 70% of sales. VE looks nice but the danger is the BF will be able to be discounted to fleets whereas the holden won't have as much wiggle room. This could mean the mainstay of Holden ie fleets, could take the lions share of sales from holden to others like toyota, ford and others. With the proliferation of novated leasing, Holden and ford are becoming less and less the car of choice for employees who instead prefer to go for euros. This will definately hurt holden more than ford as the holden has a huge break even point to meet, whereas ford have already passed theirs.
I would have expected a world class car for the investment, and a car completely ahead of ford in terms of refinement, looks, fuel economy and power. Best way to describe it is that Ford are not in the unenviable position that they were when the VT came out.

That fleet point is very interesting. if ford can beat the VE on price, and sarafice a little bit of profit it kill kick Holden in the balls.

I wonder if the accountants will go for looks, or value?

Steffo · 06-08-2006, 05:48 PM

The sports stuff is really interesting. The SS-V definitley has the XR8 beaten to a pulp in a straight line. Remember, in the real world people seem to be beating the times Motor does, so its safe to say the SS-V can do better then 13.6. Has a BA/BF done better then that, stock, in XR8 form?

Typhoon is really the only car Ford/FPV has at the moment that is genuinely faster then the VE SS-V. According to Motor the SS-V is 1690kg with 270kW and 530Nm. That's a 30kg weight gain over VZ. Not as much as was originally speculated....

As far as current rumours go, 310kW will be the VE Clubsport. 1696kg is what the VZ weighed... so if it gains 30... that's 1726kg. Lighter then an XR6 Turbo. With more power, and possible equal torque, then all of FPV's finest.

FPV · 06-08-2006, 05:56 PM

I just think Holden has cheapened everything with the VE:

-Wheel arches used to proclaim performance, what does Holden do, put them on every model, now it just looks wrong on the base models and HSV wont have much room to move with them.

-Quad pipes used to be for cars such as E55, M5 and would even be fine with HSV's, but instead Holden decided to throw them on the SS range and the Calais-V, not to mention dual pipes on the SV6. Where will HSV go from here?

-Then there is the matter of the downgrading previous models such as the Berlina, SS, Calais, the whole Cadillac V Series range, and looks like HSV will drop down the GTS badge as well.

If Holden don't mop the floor with BF/BFII range in the upcoming reviews, that means it has to win every comparison against Ford, then i wouldnt be proclaiming the VE range a complete success. Especially since when the BA was launched it won 4 out of 4 comparisons done by Wheels. Already a little criticism is being unraveled in the first drive reviews, the Omega aint all that great, SV6 is just good for looks, the Calais-V has a rough ride(Something the BA/BF Fairmont Ghia has mastered with good roadholding as well as good ride quality). The V6/4 speed/5 speed auto combination so far hasnt been deemed better then the BF engine/transmission combo. On the other hand the v8 has been great, but the 6 speed auto hasnt been applauded as the best still.

Also this car has to take out the Wheels Car of the year award, i think it could possibly have a good chance, but wont be suprised if it doesnt take it out either.

And don't forget BFII hasnt been revealed yet, who knows how big this upgrade will be, they already have a solid base, they can only go up from here.

Bossxr8 · 06-08-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

The sports stuff is really interesting. The SS-V definitley has the XR8 beaten to a pulp in a straight line. Remember, in the real world people seem to be beating the times Motor does, so its safe to say the SS-V can do better then 13.6. Has a BA/BF done better then that, stock, in XR8 form?

Typhoon is really the only car Ford/FPV has at the moment that is genuinely faster then the VE SS-V. According to Motor the SS-V is 1690kg with 270kW and 530Nm. That's a 30kg weight gain over VZ. Not as much as was originally speculated....

As far as current rumours go, 310kW will be the VE Clubsport. 1696kg is what the VZ weighed... so if it gains 30... that's 1726kg. Lighter then an XR6 Turbo. With more power, and possible equal torque, then all of FPV's finest.

Those weight figures are crap. The Omega has gained 120kg. 80kg are supposed to be from the heavier body and chassis. The SS would have gained exactly the same amount from the heavier body/chassis, and maybe more or less depending on the differences between the models. That would put it up near 1800kg. How the SSV can supposedly run low 5's with an extra 10kw and 20nm but 120kg extra is just not believable. Holdens performance figures have always been unrealistic. The claims can never be backed up. Then there is the talk of hotted up press cars to consider.

Kachow · 06-08-2006, 06:10 PM

It will very interesting to see how the market excepts VE....and what Ford do to counterpunch.......
:jab:

All intersting points made, good thread.

**Polyal** · 06-08-2006, 06:26 PM

well that red SSV looks good from that pic (probably because you cant see the rear spoiler). But the sporty models have always been pretty good form both sides of the fence.

Kachow, you wouldn't happen to be involved with Holden in any particular ay would you?

Also, I take it you have seen the movie Cars?

Kachow · 06-08-2006, 06:35 PM

Nope...I'm a fence sitter.
I was impressed when BA came out after the AU......what a revelation that was !!!
Now I see the VE a step futher.....just interested in enthusiasts point of view..about both.

I love Cars...........great movie.

EL XR8 · 06-08-2006, 07:21 PM

Is it just me, or does the Omega look like a Hyundai Sonata with Mitsubishi Magna hub caps on it.

The SS with 19's looks nice.

Dilan · 06-08-2006, 07:25 PM

That red SS is hot. But Holden are stupid for having flared guards on base models. They should've done the same thing as BMW and only left it for the sports version (M3). Omega with flared guards just ruins the exclusivity of them. It would be the equivalent of XT's with bonnet bulges!

vztrt · 06-08-2006, 07:41 PM

I saw a SV6 and a Lumina (Chev badged RHD) VE's on Saturday. From what I saw the front of the car was better than in the photo's, the back is better than the VY/VZ monstrosity, but side on I think I need to get use to it more as it looks like it's been in a fight with a compactor and lost!
Mind you the last Commo I liked was the VX. I just hope internally they're better than the tripe that Holden was delivering before.

Crofty · 06-08-2006, 08:29 PM

Here here! :P

OzJavelin · 06-08-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilan

That red SS is hot. But Holden are stupid for having flared guards on base models. They should've done the same thing as BMW and only left it for the sports version (M3). Omega with flared guards just ruins the exclusivity of them. It would be the equivalent of XT's with bonnet bulges!

Bit hard for Holden to justify different rear qtr pressings between SWB models .. change of bonnet is minor compared to this.

LeadFoot81 · 07-08-2006, 12:06 AM

I've seen a couple of uncamoflaged VE SS's on the road and had a good look at them.
The first thing I noticed is that the spoiler and bottom half of the rear bodykit reminds me of the BF Typhoon.
The SS (and i can only assume the other models as well) look awkward, in that the boot is really short and sits high up, where the front is long and sits really low.
I'm sure this thing is wider than the VZ and BF, and yet it looks like a really narrow medium sized car, as opposed to a wide large car.
The wheel arches look good on the SS, but from directly front on they look ridiculously oversized (I imagine theyll look bizzare on an omega)
In the details the heeadlights and tail lights are great. They remind me of Fords R7 concept (territory) from a few yaers ago. However the headlights just arent aggresive enough. I prefer the VZ/BF lights.
The VE does instantly age the BF, in the same way VT instantly aged the EL. However I just dont think the change from VZ to VE is as big a deal as VS to VT (I really think that update was majorly impressive) The BF wont be as hamstrung as the EL was, Its an excellent car thats only half a generation behind is SOME areas.
I dont think well have a year of VE flogging BF, but a year of slightly discounted BF2's wreaking havoc on holdens VE plans, with a year to get everything just right on the next falcon.
Whats happens re: HSV vs FPV, SS vs XR8/6T however, that could b interesting.

naroomablue · 07-08-2006, 01:17 AM

Could'nt agree more Inline6 those wheel arches are massive, I'm just wondering how big the boot is, as all models have space saver spare tires standard, and full size an option for $100 in the omega to $250 for larger alloy models. Must admit it looks good side on.
Ford wont change their 5.4 litre engine as it should meet future emission standards by tweaking valve timing etc, whereas, holden had to go to a 6 litre to meet current specs, does that mean we will see a even larger capacity engine in the future???

AU-MUSTD · 08-08-2006, 10:08 PM

A new statesman pulled up next to me at the lights today and from the corner of my eye looked like a bmw m5 with the huge flared gaurds and massive wheels. It was only when i saw a holden logo on the center caps that l turned to see an uncovered and extreemly empressive new ve statesman. The wheels looked at least 20 inch and the general style looked as good a match for any euro/ german luxury car. Personaly i am very empressed with the car for my first real life sighting and stood out as much as the 300 c's do.. Sorry but didnt get a pick as l was drooling too much.

Full Spectrum · 08-08-2006, 11:20 PM

They are best vied in person, I seen today down my local holden dealers about 6 omegas, And i was taken out the back to see the SV6 Berlina and Calais. You can't knock them in person they look fantastic, even the omegas 16" rims aren't as small as has been commented before, Only thing was i liked the SV6 Twin system over the berlinas Quads. It might be the berlina's rear missing the extra kit like the SV6-SS-SS-V but i did like the SV6 best,
The flared guards are large but it wasn't the first thing about it i noticed. I was thinking it's smaller then it's size it's really not making a VZ which was next to it look small. Then there was a Z series maloo on the other side and the Sv6 front made the maloo's front look very limp.

I didn't get any pics as there not even on the showroom floors yet but i did snag a Vette pic in the waiting bay that was just sold? I'm still wondering what it's doing there and why holden sold it.

Aeron · 10-08-2006, 12:10 AM

I tell ya what, the VE SS 270Kw GEN4 for $44,990 is great value!!! I payed that for my XR6T 2 years ago. I would have gone for the VE SS I think.

uranium_death · 10-08-2006, 12:34 AM

Some pics of the VE make it look nice, some make it look really poor.

In a pic earlier in this post showing a pic from the back, I think the VE looks terrible, while the pic of the Red SSV has an awesome front. Interestingly, I had opposing views 2 weeks ago when I got my first in-depth looks. To me, this shows inconsistency which IMO isn't good.

I have always loved the look of the BA/F from any angle. Sure, it may look aged, but I still prefer it far more. Plus I like the interiors of the falcon more.
I don't think the BA is as far behind as everybody says. I feel the judgment is based purely on the exterior, which I am not that impressed with anyway.

Sadly, people will be swept up in the whole "New Holden" phase, which frankly, I wasn't that excited about in the first place.

Keep in mind, although I prefer Fords, I keep myself open to Holdens. Drive a VTII and think its an ok ride. But my point is I don't think Ford is in a deep pile of softy, sloppy poopie like some think. Ford still has a solid vehicle, and I would buy it ahead of the VE.

EFFalcon · 10-08-2006, 12:39 AM

that red VE SS, so photoshopped, there is no way its that low standard.