e-Scooters - opinions?

[jakkes]

They are everywhere in L.A and San Francisco but it was cheaper to get an Uber than it was to rent a scooter.. but lotsa fun zipping around drunk bar to bar hahaha

[T3rminator]

And another....bound to be plenty of others not making the news. So I think there is a place for policing, rather than have them taken away.

I personally haven't come across any close calls, and most riders I've seen have been quite sensible.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...07-p5azxe.html

[Franco Cozzo]

Been a couple of deaths in the last few weeks with these things, what they all have in common is all three they weren't wearing helmets when they ate ****.

Repeated calls for bans on these things are ridiculous, it would be like banning cars because a couple deaths from people not wearing seat belts and dying in accidents.

The way I see it they should be treated like motorbikes, allow privately owned escooters that can do higher speeds but enforce safety through helmets and clothes - you want to ride the 50km/h+ escooter then you're wearing motorbike helmet plus proper clothes, otherwise fine.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Been a couple of deaths in the last few weeks with these things, what they all have in common is all three they weren't wearing helmets when they ate ****.

Repeated calls for bans on these things are ridiculous, it would be like banning cars because a couple deaths from people not wearing seat belts and dying in accidents.

The way I see it they should be treated like motorbikes, allow privately owned escooters that can do higher speeds but enforce safety through helmets and clothes - you want to ride the 50km/h+ escooter then you're wearing motorbike helmet plus proper clothes, otherwise fine.

Haven't heard anyone calling for a ban. Self inflicted injuries....well you take the risk so I don't really care, but its the injuries they cause to innocent pedestrians that ****s me. Should be treated as culpable driving, if some nong ran into my mum or dad....or nephew...or niece doing 60kmh on a shared path, I'd be livid.

Anyway, Limes and Neurons are legal here. I suspect they are built solid, and to a certain standard, unlike some of the high powered ones you get off ebay. There have been 3 deaths in the last 2 weeks, I think all from privates. I really like the idea of ebikes and escooters for city commute, so don't mind them as long as people treat them with respect. That also means motorists will need to learn to co-exist. good luck with that here.

Europe have had these for a while, so they would have gone through all the teething issues around safety and co-existence. They also have better infra to cater for these things IMHO. Put it this way, I had no fear riding a push bike around London with no helmet. There is no chance in hell I'd ride a push bike in the CBD here. Roads and paths are badly made, they were not designed for this type of commute, and I don't trust the motorists here In Amsterdam you see mums and dads putting their kids in a little tub attached to the front of the bike, and they ride around. I can't see any sane person doing that on our roads.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Haven't heard anyone calling for a ban. Self inflicted injuries....well you take the risk so I don't really care, but its the injuries they cause to innocent pedestrians that ****s me. Should be treated as culpable driving, if some nong ran into my mum or dad....or nephew...or niece doing 60kmh on a shared path, I'd be livid.

Anyway, Limes and Neurons are legal here. I suspect they are built solid, and to a certain standard, unlike some of the high powered ones you get off ebay. There have been 3 deaths in the last 2 weeks, I think all from privates. I really like the idea of ebikes and escooters for city commute, so don't mind them as long as people treat them with respect. That also means motorists will need to learn to co-exist. good luck with that here.

Europe have had these for a while, so they would have gone through all the teething issues around safety and co-existence. They also have better infra to cater for these things IMHO. Put it this way, I had no fear riding a push bike around London with no helmet. There is no chance in hell I'd ride a push bike in the CBD here. Roads and paths are badly made, they were not designed for this type of commute, and I don't trust the motorists here In Amsterdam you see mums and dads putting their kids in a little tub attached to the front of the bike, and they ride around. I can't see any sane person doing that on our roads.

Mate the prob here is no one has any tolerence let alone we never grew up like the culture in europe and asia having heaps of vespa's/and bikes used in asia plus cyclist's here there everywhere.
As for roads paths, christ europe's roads/paths are only centuries odler in some case's doesn't worry them as you'd know, we were ripping along cobbled stone roads around Milan and elsewhere, our cbd roads are fine compared to that for escooter/bike use.
Trouble is here is so entitled, everything needs to be smooth/well made/law abiding - woke is me
I agree with your comment about motorists here, its not the road/path conditions to worry about more like the road users and the countless whingers in this day and age.

[FTE217]

This BS regulated world of ours - what next.
Just did 2wks in europe and in Milan done over 36k's on those Lime scooters.
Absolute hoot, cheap as chips wot speed of 25k's.
Thankfully laws are far looser there compared to this stoopid place of ours.
On pathways, streets you name it - pedestrians here there everywhere, no one barking at you one bit.

[minheim]

I think they will become a nuisance as more and more kids get them. I think that you should need to register them if allowing them for useon the road and they should be prohibited on footpaths full stop and not allowed for kids to use. Registration could reduce kids buying or using them as it could be used to make an adult liable for any misuse or underage use. Maybe also there could be a small third party insurance levy to cover injury to third parties.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by minheim

I think they will become a nuisance as more and more kids get them. I think that you should need to register them if allowing them for useon the road and they should be prohibited on footpaths full stop and not allowed for kids to use. Registration could reduce kids buying or using them as it could be used to make an adult liable for any misuse or underage use. Maybe also there could be a small third party insurance levy to cover injury to third parties.

Why o why......
Does every single thing have to be licensed/regulated in this place.
We used to have cyclist's pounding the paths - skateboarders, billy carts now we have to regulate kids fun even more let alone adults ducking to shops and back instead of the car.
OK compulsory helmuts must be used agree with that.
People go on about pollution, fuel costs but hang on lets add more costs having a ebike or scooter.

[Citroënbender]

I think we need legislation to ensure at least a certain number of laws are enacted every week, lest we fall behind.

[aussiblue]

I've held back on comments for a while but here goes. As one of the very many poor buggers who has been hit by an e-scooter at speed I am all for tougher regulation and a way to more easily ID careless and/or speeding offenders.

Due to my specific chronic health conditions, I'm very heat intolerant so I usually do my exercise walks at night along the mixed use pedestrian-cycle path that follows the Kwinana Freeway between Bibra lake and the Murdoch hospital complex. Because of the number of mad Lycra wearing cyclists (who at least use lots of, albeit often blinding, lighting) that speed along this path I wear both reflective hi-vis clothing and a torch headband that has a flashing red light at the rear. I have dressed this way for years now while doing this walk. E-cyclists have become a more common issue in the last few years especially with some teenage riders traveling in groups and deliberately buzzing me by passing me closely on both sides at once. I suspect they think they my advanced years and my hi-vis gear and light are a reason to target me. However, it was solo e-scooter rider that hit me when he pulled out of the Murdoch Chase estate and ran into the back of me at speed. I suspect he was probably using his phone rather than watching where he was going as he dropped the phone during the collision. He was very obviously more concerned about his phone than my wellbeing but unfortunately his phone seemed to escape uninjured.

This was around 9:30pm on a Wednesday evening. I sensed him coming and stiffened myself ready for the impact a few seconds before it happened and that probably at least stopped me from me being knocked over but he winded me badly and I lost control of my bladder for second (GP says adrenaline caused by the shock; in any event that's not something that I have ever experienced before and in some ways walkinhg home with a small wet patch hurt most) . I also had gastrointestinal bleeding for a few days. My pulse rate was also well over the 100bps for the next several hours after the collision. The e-scooter was unlit but the rider was wearing a helmet. He swore at me and called me an old c**nt before speeding away. Something like "stay out my my way you ****ing old c**nt. The path has a white dividing line down the center as I was on the correct side of it so he had ample room to safely pass me. My GP observed that pedestrian injuries from e-scooter collisions was becoming a very common cause for emergency hospital admissions in WA and, while I was the first case at his practice, they doctors there thought it would only be a matter of time. This growing incidence of e-scooter caused injuries has also been confirmed in the press per https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-...erth/101242834 "Perth hospitals report 'dramatic' rise in e-scooter injuries as family remembers crash victim Kim Rowe"

E-scooter riders have been told to slow down after a Perth grandmother was hospitalised with broken bones following a crash that was captured by CCTV.
Key points:

Authorities believe speed was a factor in the crash involving the woman
It follows the deaths of two people in Perth recently due to e-scooter accidents
Hospitals have seen an increase in serious injuries since 2019

The footage shows the 70-year-old woman take just a couple of steps before being wiped out by an e-scooter as she left a nail salon in East Victoria Park about 4pm on Wednesday.

It was the latest in a string of accidents in Perth in recent months that have resulted in two deaths and multiple injuries, with hospitals dealing with the aftermath of a "dramatic increase" in e-scooter crashes.

Road Safety Commissioner Adrian Warner said it appeared that in this instance the e-scooter was going too fast.....

I was holding back on posting, as my experience in discussing this with friends, acquaintances and family, has been a very definite lack of sympathy from the under 30's who seem to think I should not be out walking at night at all (seemingly implying that at a mere 69 years old I should be tucked away in a nursing home instead).

So I know I am probably exposing myself to getting some similar responses on this forum too. Go for it if you must; I'm expecting it and I am not about to give up my rights to a late evening walk. The idea of wearing a helmet (but not an adult nappy so stop right there) while walking crossed my mind briefly but I am sure doing that would just make me more of a target for those e-scooter riders who see to take pleasure in bullying pedestrians. There are occasional or in reality rare motor cycle and bike mounted police patrols along this path but I have never seen one after sunset. I think these patrols are more aimed at the youth who steal motorbike style scooters and mopeds from the Murdoch bus and train station and also use the path to ride them between the venues of their home burglaries and other associated crimes. I can see why some other aged walkers who travel the same path carry those torches that double and extendable truncheons but I think they carry a risk of you being charged with carrying or even assault with a prohibited weapon in WA.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I've held back on comments for a while but here goes. As one of the very many poor buggers who has been hit by an e-scooter at speed I am all for tougher regulation and a way to more easily ID careless and/or speeding offenders.

From your post I see you encounter plenty of Cyclists too, In your opinion if a Cyclist crashed into you would they do as much damage?

or is this more about how the scooters are ridden

[aussiblue]

Also see: https://www.watoday.com.au/national/...27-p5ax1s.html Just several KM down the road from me and not dissimilar circumstances.

[aussiblue]

From your post I see you encounter plenty of Cyclists too, In your opinion if a Cyclist crashed into you would they do as much damage?

or is this more about how the scooters are ridden

While cyclists at night seem to speed even more, at least they are generally extremely well lit and most both ring their bell and slow down to pass pedestrians. While, in the past, I have also come across some rogue bullying cyclists and some that think they own the whole pathway, they have been very much in the small minority and seem to soon vanish from the scene following complaints. From what I have observed the cyclists in this suburb are somewhat self policing and peer pressure is brought to bear on any doing the wrong thing. The are also generally from an older and possibly from a more mature age group and potentially generally more responsible age group. But yes; I do also come across some very respectful, courteous and safe driving young e-scooter riders albeit they seem a small minority at night. But yes, potentially a cyclist or a group of cyclists in pack might do more damage than an e-scooter.

I have also come across cars driving illegally and at speed along the shared pathways at night that go around Bibra Lake and North Lake and the would obviously do even more damage if they hit me (yes I got the rego numbers and reported them to police but all were, or were claimed to, be stolen). But due to the abundance of tiger snakes that bask on the warm paths at night and my difficulty in distinguishing a dozing tiger snake from a harmless stick at night, I now avoid those routes. The dugites (it's dry banksia bushland not lakeside tiger snake country) that you find on the route i take at night to the Murdoch hospital complex tend to try and avoid humans and are just glimpsed briefly as the slither off into the bush.

I guess I would rather see e-scooters registered and allowed on the road with some sort of restricted license and a basic road traffic test, even though we know they would still illegally use footpaths when it better suited them. At least it should make it easier to ID offenders. The risk of colliding with a car on the road should also encourage them to be more careful and wear a a helmet.

[Falcon SXR8]

Unfortunately like all good things its the idiots that will wreck it for everyone. I follow a few diy ebike facebook pages and the amount of idiots building high powered pushbikes with old rim brakes is crazy. If you say anything your labelled and old fart or hater. I've just resigned to the fact mine will be banned one day like everything else so I'll enjoy it while I can.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Unfortunately like all good things its the idiots that will wreck it for everyone. I follow a few diy ebike facebook pages and the amount of idiots building high powered pushbikes with old rim brakes is crazy. If you say anything your labelled and old fart or hater. I've just resigned to the fact mine will be banned one day like everything else so I'll enjoy it while I can.

about what occurs, always that small % wreck it for the rest who do have care and do the right thing re manners, being aware and avoid high risk situations but you can't avoid everything just like driving, accidents happen.
I wouldn't attack you one bit AB, and the age isn't another point, can happen to any street/pathway walker young and old.
Sorry to hear and your experience is exactly the example of the small % b uggers who blame the person not themselves, worse they keep doing the runner.
This is the type of person who should be caught charged and pay for damages.
Our ones laways had lights front and back, I also used the bell pre warning coming up to pedestrians who I could tell weren't aware.

Worse are the people walking and on their mobiles or ear pods, how can you even go jogging with your ears into music and not hear whats around you let alone whilst on a bike/escotter whatever.

Common sense is out the door might I add.

[aussiblue]

In our local suburb, if you can believe our Facebook community page, there has been an increase in the number of reported burglaries, vandalism and similar crimes involving youths on e-scooters as well as thefts of e-scooters themselves and I expect this might drive the Police and the wider community to push for their regulation as much the safety issues. Perhaps some states will follow Singapore's lead and ban their use on footpaths/sidewalks per https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-au/n...-rising/341874 .

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

In our local suburb, if you can believe our Facebook community page, there has been an increase in the number of reported burglaries, vandalism and similar crimes involving youths on e-scooters as well as thefts of e-scooters themselves and I expect this might drive the Police and the wider community to push for their regulation as much the safety issues. Perhaps some states will follow Singapore's lead and ban their use on footpaths/sidewalks per https://www.entrepreneur.com/en-au/n...-rising/341874 .

It's the perfect getaway vehicle for them. They are silent, they are fast and they can go anywhere.

Imagine sitting at a set of traffic lights with your window down and your mobile sitting in its cradle. Along comes a grub on their scooter, pinches your phone and they are gone in a flash.

I drive through a suburb well known to police and thieves on scooters everyday and my windows are always up and I keep an eye on all my mirrors when stopped.

As has been said, it's the minority that ruin it for others. No matter what laws / registration / fines are introduced, there is a section of our community that simply just don't care (young or old)...

Thanks for posting up your story Blue and I'm glad that you are ok.

[nibble]

Aussieblue. the fact that he showed no concern for your well being speaks more to his character then the fact he's riding an e-scooter. Could have been in a car and he'd probably just driven off. Little bastd. What's wrong with people these days?? Anyway glad you're ok.

[Franco Cozzo]

1:33 onwards is someone on an e-scooter on the highway

[Sprintey]

Aussieblue, hope you recovered from that one. I know those roads and paths around Bibra lake too.

Down on surf coast Vic I've seen them flying down the street, only a couple. I wondered when the kids who fang them get their licence and EVs are cheap second handies, just how much they will crank those - going to be a fast future!

Otherwise I've seen very few of them. And yes Vic does appear to be a circus with no rules, seems people can do whatever they want. Could be fun, surfing the wave of a breaking social contract. I'd probably go collect road cones or something inane, when society breaks down...

FTE - surfboards are still free! Once you buy or make them. Experience and strength filter out most (but not all) of the idiot behaviour.

Franco, looking forward to watching all the links

[Sprintey]

Those OBike/fishing vids were very funny. There's a juxtaposition between the blinding trust that 0% interest rates and fully-fuelled venture capital firms bring to innovation, and the inner mischeviousness that lurks in quite a few of us.

I wonder what happens to the lithium batteries once they are immersed in the Yarra. Also from an environmental standpoint. Back in Yr 9 our chem teacher did a great experiment where he took class to the river and threw a piece of elemental sodium in.... boom!

[Franco Cozzo]

So here in Mexico,

$909 fine for riding illegal eScooter:

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safe...ls-in-victoria

Plus we've seen VIC Police calling tow truck for impound of scooter, are they also paying impound fees?

I got an $850 fine for 161 in 100 zone

[aussiblue]

This was just down the road to: https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/...ies--c-7019332 and I have seen many similar incidents on the main roads and highways around Bibra Lake including on the Roe Highway and Kwinana Freeway.

[Citroënbender]

Is there any reason people might not disguise their personally owned e-scooter as a rental one, to avoid detection?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Is there any reason people might not disguise their personally owned e-scooter as a rental one, to avoid detection?

There is only certain trial zones but thats a good idea

Chuck a Lime sticker on it, might be a bit suspect when you're doing 80km/h+ down the highway or you pop up in Sunbury on your e-scooter:



One was impounded in Brunswick which as you can see is just outside the trial area.

For some reason they're also doing a trial zone in Ballarat as well:



I reckon with how popular they are, the e-Scooter pirates are going to win this battle.

VIC Politics: Yay Environment

Also VIC Politics: HOW DARE YOU RIDE YOUR LOW EMISSIONS FORM OF TRANSPORT! GET IN YOUR CAR AND CRAWL ACROSS MELBOURNE LIKE THE REST OF US!

[aussiblue]

Most better than this I guess: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-...led-/101516910 78 year old illegally riding an electric bike at night on the freeway on lanes narrowed due to roadworks and possibly riding without lights. Old, lost and confused or just arrogant and stupid one wonders.

Police search for driver of a vehicle which fatally hit 86-year-old man on e-bike
By Ashleigh Davis

Police say the elderly man was riding an electric bicycle on the Mitchell Freeway when he was struck. (ABC News: Elicia Kennedy)

Police are searching for the driver of a vehicle involved in a hit-and-run that killed an 86-year-old man who was riding an electric bicycle on the Mitchell Freeway.

The man was riding the black bicycle around 4:50am on Sunday when a vehicle, believed to be a silver Mitsubishi four-wheel drive, struck him near the Hepburn Avenue exit in Kingsley.

Police say the driver of the vehicle did not stop to help the man who died at the scene.
Freeway with police cars parked to the side
The man was hit near the Hepburn Avenue exit, shutting down that section of the freeway. (ABC news )

The part of the freeway where the man was found is undergoing roadworks, meaning the lanes were narrow and without an emergency lane.

Detective first class constable Benjamin Rooney said members of the public stopped immediately after the incident to call emergency services and try to revive the man.

Constable Rooney said with the amount of debris left on the road, it would be impossible for the driver not to have known they hit a person.

“It’s very likely that he may still be alive this morning if the person did stop,” he said.

“We don’t know if the car slowed down or not – that’s under investigation.”
E-bikes illegal on the freeway

Constable Rooney said the 86-year-old was likely alive for several minutes before dying at the scene from his injuries.

He said all bicycles and scooters are illegal on the freeway for good reason.

“It's very unsafe, especially in hours of darkness,” he said.

“That's obviously the message that we send to anyone – do not do it.

"It can end catastrophically, as we know from events this morning.”

It is not yet known whether the e-bicycle had any lights on it.

Detectives believe the vehicle involved would likely have significant front end damage, particularly on the left hand, passenger side.

Anyone who has any information about the incident is urged to contact Crime Stoppers.
Posted 3h ago

But nonetheless one wonders what was the Mitsubishi four-wheel drive driver's excuse for not stopping... drunk and/or drugged and/or unlicensed perhaps.

[aussiblue]

The kill Aston Martin's too: https://www.9news.com.au/national/fi...0-e787e2cbcb81

A faulty e-scooter is believed to have sparked a fire that destroyed an Aston Martin at a Sydney home.
The person living in the Northern Beaches home escaped last night's fire unhurt but about 20 firefighters were needed to prevent the blaze spreading to the rest of the property.
Emergency services were called to Spring Cove Avenue, Manly, at 5.30pm and six Fire and Rescue NSW trucks rushed to the home.
The e-scooter was being stored in the garage of the house, which suffered only minor damage.
The car, models of which can cost into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, was wrecked.
FRNSW has warned lithium-ion batteries that power e-scooters can cause fires.

"It is not uncommon for firefighters to respond to fires which have been caused by lithium-ion battery-powered equipment such as e-bikes and e-scooters," the fire department said.
"FRNSW is urging people to do their research before purchasing, using and storing these items."

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

The kill Aston Martin's too: https://www.9news.com.au/national/fi...0-e787e2cbcb81

Lithium ion batteries are indeed bastards, now put your Nissan Leaf in your garage and charge it in there.

Said Nissan Leaf has 400V worth of the bastards in it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Here's what the data shows us about Melbourne and Ballarat's embrace of the e-scooter

Many riders swapping car commute for e-scooter, company says

The companies behind the trial, Lime and Neuron, believe the trial results show e-scooters offer a net benefit to the community.

Neuron's regional manager Yusuf Abdulahi said his company had recorded 1.7 million riders who had ridden some 3 million kilometres.

"Those figures put Melbourne as the highest in our e-scooter demand cities globally," he said.

"Now that indicates that our riders are ditching their cars for those short trips and opting for an e-scooter."

He said Neuron's data suggested around 40 per cent of their riders were commuters, while the rest were exploring the city they were in.

"Further to this, 65 per cent of trips result in a purchase at a local business," he said.

In Ballarat, Mr Abdulahi said Neuron's data revealed riders averaged 2.3km, slightly higher than Melbourne's 2km average.

More than 60 per cent of those riders were using an e-scooter to replace a car, higher than around 45 per cent in Melbourne.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-...eets/101879480

Trial in Melbourne and Ballarat has been a success, now we just need Victoria Police to stop being a pack of bastards and let people ride their privately owned ones.

Privately owned e-scooters legal to buy, illegal to ride as Victoria Police enforces safety blitz

When Melbourne resident Andy Cox decided to sell his car, he was planning to use an e-scooter to get around. But he didn't know riding it on Victorian roads was illegal.

E-scooter trials kicked off in February in the City of Melbourne, the City of Yarra, the City of Port Phillip, and in Ballarat. But outside the trials, e-scooters mostly remain illegal to ride on roads and can only be used on private property.

"We wanted to get rid of the second family car," Mr Cox said.

"We didn't want to be adding to the problem, we kept one with the car seats for the two kids so we could be a one-car household."

More convenient than a bike

Mr Cox had previously been using the scooter on his daily commute, which often involved catching a bus and a train.

Unlike bikes, Mr Cox said he could take the scooter with him on the bus.

"Most of the places I can [catch] public transport … but I was using it to get to where I work, which is a very hilly half-hour walk from the station," he said.

"I can scoot it in about six minutes."

Mr Cox said even when he purchased the scooter he asked the retailer if they were legal, but he said they also seemed unaware of the rules.

They told Mr Cox he could ride it as long as he was wearing a helmet and the scooter did not exceed 20kph.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-...litz/101498938

You can ride the ones you need to pay to loan but you can't ride your own one thats exactly the same as the renta-scooters.... 'safety'.

[Dr Smith]

It's the State Government which needs to change the law, when police "decide to relax" the enforcement of any law it does open up a whole new can of worms as relying on the discretion of individual police isn't fair.