Defence Force - Page 2

FlipXW · 16-01-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pertuan

Navy Seaman Officer - You're signing up for a life of shift work. These people drive the ships to where they need to be. After about 4-5 years, you'll be a Warfare Officer which is still shiftwork. You'll be waking up at midnight or 4am. Think very carefully about it... its shiftwork. I only stress this point because recruiters don't seem to tell applicants this and they get disappointed when they realise.

Up until you get promoted to Commander level, you'll be doing shiftwork. That takes about 12 years to get to Commander level.

He didn't tell me that, to tell you the truth the information he gave wasn't very useful at all. Thanks for that, i'll have to look into it further myself and have a chat to a few older mates who are in the Navy methinks.

sleekism · 16-01-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastapasta

You could try for a uni in townsville of armidale or some smaller uni with lower cut offs.

on physics maths forums there is a good thread about whether someone should become an engineer given the workload and academice requirements.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1565325

If you are still interested in doing Civil Engineering than you can do an Assosciate Degree in Civil Engineering at the University of Southern Queensland.

The UAI cutoff was 57!!!!!!!!

You can even do it by distance like what I'm doing and when you graduate (2 years full time) then you already have half the bachelor degree than you can just continue on.

The DefenceForce is fun but their pay leaves a lot to be desired.

Dave_au · 16-01-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

Thanks for that guys. Yea strike i was going to do Civil Engineering at uni, missed out by 3 points. Does that mean that I would be able to do an engineering course at the ADFA or not because my marks weren't big enough?

ADFA is a campus of UNSW, I believe to enter ADFA, you need to meet the UAI/TER/VAC requirements of UNSW for admission.

FlipXW · 16-01-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

ADFA is a campus of UNSW, I believe to enter ADFA, you need to meet the UAI/TER/VAC requirements of UNSW for admission.

Yep this is true. Its even higher ive since found out so no chance there.

pertuan · 16-01-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

He didn't tell me that, to tell you the truth the information he gave wasn't very useful at all. Thanks for that, i'll have to look into it further myself and have a chat to a few older mates who are in the Navy methinks.

Seeing as you are in Newcastle, I would strongly recommend that you speak to your recruiters to organise a look around Fleet Base East here in Garden Island, Sydney. Most of the ships are alongside so you can potentially go and talk to all the people onboard for LPAs, FFGs, ANZAC Class and Oilers. Most of the civilian recruiters have never stepped foot on a ship let alone sail on one. What they tell you is all the rosy happy stuff. Get down to GI and talk to the sailors and officers.

pertuan · 16-01-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

The DefenceForce is fun but their pay leaves a lot to be desired.

Depends on what you do. I reckon my pay is pretty good considering what opportunities Defence offers in terms of the scope of work.

mcnews · 17-01-2008, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

He didn't tell me that, to tell you the truth the information he gave wasn't very useful at all. Thanks for that, i'll have to look into it further myself and have a chat to a few older mates who are in the Navy methinks.

As a Seaman Officer you do lots of grunt work when starting out, but at the end of the day it is the ONLY way to be a REAL Naval Officer. The only way you can become a PWO (Principe Warfare Officer), a Navigator and after one or both of them then the commanding officer of a warship.

Yes, Seaman Officers do more crap jobs when they are starting out, but I do believe the rewards are worth it. In reality all other officers are just mid level management book keepers or tech heads. They will never be in command on the bridge of a warship. And in reality a seaman officer that has only been in a few years does get command of the bridge and drives the ship when he is on watch. I don't think any other branch of officerdom can offer anything as remotely rewarding as that.

pertuan · 17-01-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

As a Seaman Officer you do lots of grunt work when starting out, but at the end of the day it is the ONLY way to be a REAL Naval Officer.

Woah. You must be a Seaman Officer. A Seaman Officer/PWO is only as good as the equipment on his platform allows him to be. If his WEEO doesn't have his poop in his sock, the PWO might as well sit there and drink his brew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

They will never be in command on the bridge of a warship.

Not everyone who joins the navy wants command of a ship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

I don't think any other branch of officerdom can offer anything as remotely rewarding as that.

Again... wrong. I've been in 4 years and I run my entire department. In fact I believe I have a better job than those Seaman Officers. I work day shift and only day shift. I don't have to wake up at midnight or 4am to go stand on a bridge and shout "Port 30", Starboard 30, Midships.... Steer 130.. etc. But satisfaction is up to the individual.

mcnews · 17-01-2008, 12:58 AM

A ship relies on every individual. The same as the WEEO is only as good as his sailors. And yes a Seaman Officer or captain is well and truly buggered if anyone down the whole chain fails to do their job, a warship is the ultimate team effort where every cog is just about as important as every other cog, regardless of rank.

And no, I am not a seaman officer. But obviously you are one of those middle management tech-head book keepers WEEO's, LOL. :-)

pertuan · 17-01-2008, 09:30 PM

WEEOs aren't middle management. They are upper management and system level specialists. WEEOs provide a service to the captain. The captain is the customer.

FlipXW · 26-03-2008, 12:19 AM

For those of you who may have been wondering the outcome of this, I have an interview on the 10th of April. Job Options Evaluation Session (JOES) day also known as. My preferences are:
1, Airborne Electronics Analyst - Airforce
2, Combat Systems Operator - Navy
3, Ground Defence Officer - Airforce

Hopefully I have made the right choices. Thanks for all the help and intrest guys. And any further advice is still welcome and appreciated. Cheers.

IDT · 26-03-2008, 03:48 AM

After nearly 10 years in the Army will say all the above advise is worthy so don't get me wrong. But to balance the arguement you really need to ask yourself one question "What do you want to do when you get out?" If you don't have a plan for that then don't join. Getting in is easy. The bad side is, I know way to many guys who stayed in because they couldn't find a compatible job outside. Some of these guys were specialists, who when they got out found the technology was well out dated compared to outside or it was so specialised there is no use once out (weapons guidance systems etc) the money looks flash at first to.

Please don't take this as gloating but all the guys I served with who are still in are coming to a point in their careers that they will have no choice soon but to leave. I think I can say with some authority. Its a young mans game and when you are ready to leave you have to start all over again. Have a rock solid exit strategy and remember, don't put to much into the rubbish recruiters tell you (civilian or otherwise) you start at the very bottom and they will send you where they think you should be. There is a lot of competition for the good jobs and once in if they don't have the spot you want or think it suits someone else better you get whats left. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

GOOD LUCK

devilcv8 · 26-03-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

For those of you who may have been wondering the outcome of this, I have an interview on the 10th of April. Job Options Evaluation Session (JOES) day also known as. My preferences are:
1, Airborne Electronics Analyst - Airforce
2, Combat Systems Operator - Navy
3, Ground Defence Officer - Airforce

Hopefully I have made the right choices. Thanks for all the help and intrest guys. And any further advice is still welcome and appreciated. Cheers.

Good to see. My son (18 in a couple of days) is off to kapooka next week. Job code is ECN065 so chances are he'll end up in Darwin.

axe246 · 26-03-2008, 10:20 PM

Go learn a trade like a sparky or plumber and then work for yourself you will make a killing, rather than getting killed. You should talk to some american and australian soldiers that came back from iraq ......its a different world to what you will see in those fancy army and navy tv adds. Chances are you will be sent to the midddle east soon or later for another oil related pathetic war based on wealth and greed. I mean if you cant see the injustice of sending our troops to the iraq war then maybe you will only realise oneday when you sent there youself.

Another point i would like to raise in the army you loose your personality,dignity and pride. You cant be yourself anymore you are given orders, daily routines you have no rights and no opinions. you follow orders- thats it. You are just trained up to be a killing machine and at the yell of your superiors orders you unleash the devil in you , which makes you feel so strong till the next ied on some scummy street in iraq blows you back to.............. answer for your sins.
i have 2 friends that are in the army.iguess where still better of than the american soldiers

devilcv8 · 26-03-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe246

snip

ok, so you are anti army/airforce/navy. got it.

suggest you do some research next time.

smoo · 27-03-2008, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe246

Another point i would like to raise in the army you loose your personality,dignity and pride. You cant be yourself anymore you are given orders, daily routines you have no rights and no opinions. you follow orders- thats it.

What a load of . Lemme guess... you lasted 3 weeks into basic then pulled out? Or going of 'what your mates say'?

mcnews · 27-03-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe246

Another point i would like to raise in the army you loose your personality,dignity and pride. You cant be yourself anymore you are given orders, daily routines you have no rights and no opinions. you follow orders- thats it.

LOL, you are funny man! Defence is a team sport mate, it is very, very rare that any orders are needed, Everyone knows their job and does it, if you need to get ordered around then you don't know your job and are a liability.

Personality, dignity and pride.... LOL, you have plenty of that my friend :-)

Everyone I have served with worked in specialised areas in defence that are not available in civvy street but despite that we are all successful in whatever we chose to do after we finished up in the ADF. And not one one of us is on less than six figures despite leaving with no quals worth anything in civvy street. Must be all that personality, dignity and pride we had stripped of us in the ADF that has turned us into successful fellas that work for ourselves :-)

Envious · 27-03-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axe246

Go learn a trade like a sparky or plumber and then work for yourself you will make a killing, rather than getting killed. You should talk to some american and australian soldiers that came back from iraq ......its a different world to what you will see in those fancy army and navy tv adds. Chances are you will be sent to the midddle east soon or later for another oil related pathetic war based on wealth and greed. I mean if you cant see the injustice of sending our troops to the iraq war then maybe you will only realise oneday when you sent there youself.

Another point i would like to raise in the army you loose your personality,dignity and pride. You cant be yourself anymore you are given orders, daily routines you have no rights and no opinions. you follow orders- thats it. You are just trained up to be a killing machine and at the yell of your superiors orders you unleash the devil in you , which makes you feel so strong till the next ied on some scummy street in iraq blows you back to.............. answer for your sins.
i have 2 friends that are in the army.iguess where still better of than the american soldiers

Haha you really have no idea do you?
Simply put, you sir, are an idiot!.

Get some friggin facts before you go spouting off.

Envious · 27-03-2008, 09:43 AM

Uneducated, simple minded, im 19 and know it all uni, listen-to-everything-in-the-newspaper types like you are the reason people like me continue to do the job. Because morons, like you, dont have the balls, or the fortitude to do my job.
You sit back and comment over your morning latte with your friends how the war in Iraq is wrong, yet you cant specify why. You dont even know where or what the ADF is doing in Iraq, and yet we shouldnt be there.
You boo at the TV when the uniform appears, and protest against soldiers at our place of work (yes this happens, on a specific day every week). You spit on us when we march in the city, and yet we hold our tempers and dont set upon you, even though we could justify it.

I am about to set off on my second tour of Afghanistan, and i can walk tall knowing that I am doing what is right, even though stupid people like you still call us baby killers and evil men.

I have more Pride, Dignity, and Personality since joining than i ever did as a 'civvie'.

MYV8 · 27-03-2008, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious

Uneducated, simple minded, im 19 and know it all uni, listen-to-everything-in-the-newspaper types like you are the reason people like me continue to do the job. Because morons, like you, dont have the balls, or the fortitude to do my job.
You sit back and comment over your morning latte with your friends how the war in Iraq is wrong, yet you cant specify why. You dont even know where or what the ADF is doing in Iraq, and yet we shouldnt be there.
You boo at the TV when the uniform appears, and protest against soldiers at our place of work (yes this happens, on a specific day every week). You spit on us when we march in the city, and yet we hold our tempers and dont set upon you, even though we could justify it.

I am about to set off on my second tour of Afghanistan, and i can walk tall knowing that I am doing what is right, even though stupid people like you still call us baby killers and evil men.

I have more Pride, Dignity, and Personality since joining than i ever did as a 'civvie'.

Well done mate.
Obviously things have not changed since I got out in the early 70's.
Probably the children of the paint bomb throwing protesters we had back then.
IMO you boys are doing us proud.

FlipXW · 27-03-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious

Uneducated, simple minded, im 19 and know it all uni, listen-to-everything-in-the-newspaper types like you are the reason people like me continue to do the job. Because morons, like you, dont have the balls, or the fortitude to do my job.
You sit back and comment over your morning latte with your friends how the war in Iraq is wrong, yet you cant specify why. You dont even know where or what the ADF is doing in Iraq, and yet we shouldnt be there.
You boo at the TV when the uniform appears, and protest against soldiers at our place of work (yes this happens, on a specific day every week). You spit on us when we march in the city, and yet we hold our tempers and dont set upon you, even though we could justify it.

I am about to set off on my second tour of Afghanistan, and i can walk tall knowing that I am doing what is right, even though stupid people like you still call us baby killers and evil men.

I have more Pride, Dignity, and Personality since joining than i ever did as a 'civvie'.

Well done

,
You are doing us proud and I wish you good luck over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

LOL, you are funny man! Defence is a team sport mate, it is very, very rare that any orders are needed, Everyone knows their job and does it, if you need to get ordered around then you don't know your job and are a liability.

Personality, dignity and pride.... LOL, you have plenty of that my friend :-)

Everyone I have served with worked in specialised areas in defence that are not available in civvy street but despite that we are all successful in whatever we chose to do after we finished up in the ADF. And not one one of us is on less than six figures despite leaving with no quals worth anything in civvy street. Must be all that personality, dignity and pride we had stripped of us in the ADF that has turned us into successful fellas that work for ourselves :-)

Mate may I ask what you did in the ADF? And possibly what you are doing now?
Cheers.

devilcv8 · 27-03-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious

Uneducated, simple minded, im 19 and know it all uni, listen-to-everything-in-the-newspaper types like you are the reason people like me continue to do the job. Because morons, like you, dont have the balls, or the fortitude to do my job.
You sit back and comment over your morning latte with your friends how the war in Iraq is wrong, yet you cant specify why. You dont even know where or what the ADF is doing in Iraq, and yet we shouldnt be there.
You boo at the TV when the uniform appears, and protest against soldiers at our place of work (yes this happens, on a specific day every week). You spit on us when we march in the city, and yet we hold our tempers and dont set upon you, even though we could justify it.

I am about to set off on my second tour of Afghanistan, and i can walk tall knowing that I am doing what is right, even though stupid people like you still call us baby killers and evil men.

I have more Pride, Dignity, and Personality since joining than i ever did as a 'civvie'.

Keep safe over there, you do us all proud.

FANTASY · 27-03-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

For those of you who may have been wondering the outcome of this, I have an interview on the 10th of April. Job Options Evaluation Session (JOES) day also known as. My preferences are:
1, Airborne Electronics Analyst - Airforce
2, Combat Systems Operator - Navy
3, Ground Defence Officer - Airforce

Hopefully I have made the right choices. Thanks for all the help and intrest guys. And any further advice is still welcome and appreciated. Cheers.

A few good choices there. As I have just left the Navy after 26 years my response to you is obviously slanted towards the CSO. The work as a CSO is very demanding but very rewarding. Plenty of opportunity to branch off and specialise. If you do take the CSO category you had better be prepared for plenty of sea time (but then again it does not matter nowdays, all Navy categories do a lot of sea time - as a Communicator (SIG then CIS) I did 14 years of my 26 at sea).
Keep in the back of your mind, whilst the Navy takes a couple of weeks (sometimes more) to get to places and the hours are long, plenty of cleaning and lots of battle naps to catch up on the sleep you lost the night before, there is plenty of fun to be had once you arrive at your destination, especially the ASIA and Pacific regions and the pay IMO is great. If you are not sure you will like the Defence Force, do as a few have already said, do a gap year to get the feel and if you like it go for it, if you dont then its only a year of your life and hopefully it would have helped you in your life goals.
Whatever choice you make, good luck.

Pursuit250 · 27-03-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

Job Options Evaluation Session (JOES) day also known as. My preferences are:
1, Airborne Electronics Analyst - Airforce
2, Combat Systems Operator - Navy
3, Ground Defence Officer - Airforce

I'm interested to read the options that are available to you. Speaking from my RAAF experience, the AEA job will see you seeing most parts of the world on a P3 Orion aircraft. I have a lot of friends that do this job and they are very satisfied with it (even though they are living in South Australia

: ). I do wonder, however, how much future there is noting that the P3 Orion is up for replacement (see http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/asd/air7000/air7000.cfm) in the not to distant future, say 10 years.

I'm also interested to note that the AEA and CSO jobs are similar (relatively) and the GDO job seems a little out of left field. I wonder what your motivations are for these choices.

FlipXW · 27-03-2008, 07:54 PM

Thanks for the info Fantasy

it really helps me out.

Pursuit250: G'day mate, well im a fair bit into electronics so they are pretty self explanatory. (I did a suitable job test and these two found themselves very close to the top). As for GDO I just read the job description and it appealed to me quite a fair bit. Requires a high level of fitness, see alot of Aust very quickly, get to learn core military skills, officer wages. An accumulation of all these things just stood out to me.

axe246 · 27-03-2008, 08:20 PM

ive worked in iraq. none of you have been there. news is all bull ive seen it all. and a reply to you guys who keep thinking the iraq war is going well....... Mr bush even admits its not turning out the way they wanted it to. your just fighting a war that will never end until thre oil finishes from the middle east. all respect to the troop but not for the morons who send you there. my whole point is consider all your options before......

Pursuit250 · 27-03-2008, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilXR8

Pursuit250: G'day mate, well im a fair bit into electronics so they are pretty self explanatory. (I did a suitable job test and these two found themselves very close to the top). As for GDO I just read the job description and it appealed to me quite a fair bit. Requires a high level of fitness, see alot of Aust very quickly, get to learn core military skills, officer wages. An accumulation of all these things just stood out to me.

When you say you're into electronics, does that mean playing with the circuitry inside, or just playing with the technology?

Certainly a GDO position offers all that....and 18 months at the Royal Military College Duntroon (ouch!!!). I think you'll find anything you listed challenging and enjoyable.

FlipXW · 27-03-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursuit250

When you say you're into electronics, does that mean playing with the circuitry inside, or just playing with the technology?

Certainly a GDO position offers all that....and 18 months at the Royal Military College Duntroon (ouch!!!). I think you'll find anything you listed challenging and enjoyable.

Both really, more so the technology though. Yeah should be really good mate, im starting to get really excited about it. I really hope I get in.

IDT · 28-03-2008, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Everyone I have served with worked in specialised areas in defence that are not available in civvy street but despite that we are all successful in whatever we chose to do after we finished up in the ADF. And not one one of us is on less than six figures despite leaving with no quals worth anything in civvy street. Must be all that personality, dignity and pride we had stripped of us in the ADF that has turned us into successful fellas that work for ourselves :-)

And I know guys who are no longer with us because they couldn't deal with life after active service.

This is a very important decision this young bloke is making. I think he needs balanced advise not people attacking each others opinion.

To Phil xr8,
The ADF is very rewarding, but it also asks a lot. Sounds like you have made up your mind. All the best of luck and most importantly don't forget to drop us all a line at the forum. Would be great to hear how you go.

:

MYV8 · 28-03-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAForce8

And I know guys who are no longer with us because they couldn't deal with life after active service.

And to be fair, there are plenty of people who top themselves that have never been near the military.
It happens!!!!!!

The majority of my friends have been in the military and/or work for Defence Dept and apart from the odd divorce/re-marriage (which is the norm these days) they are all successful and happy, .....pending defence spending cuts. LoL.