Why are Toyotas so reliable (and boring).

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by smoo

I was thinking more like a VX-VY commodore or ED-EF Falcon facelift.
Where did the bulk of the BAs development money go, I assume developing the dohc engines would have sucked a lot of it up?

I know Boss answered this earlier, but I wanted to elaborate a little.

Exterior -

-All body panels were new pressings except the doors.
-The roof was the big one as it also meant new glass front and back.
-New lights front and rear. (big tooling money)
-All of this means big money on crash certification and engineering.


Interior -

-Basically all new save for a few minor carryover switches. New dash/door trims/steering wheel/carpet.
-All new seats (big development money here)
-New pedal box.
-Addition of side airbags.

Mechanical -

-All new V8 family.
-Heavily revised I6 (big money).
-Addition of Turbo I6.
-Revised BTR auto.
-Fly-by-wire throttle, new traction control operation. (big money).
-All new rear suspension sub-assembly. (This required a big structural change in the rear to support this - big money).
-New brake hardware across the range.

Then, all of this has to be made to work in unison, and build in unison. Lots of spending here.

I'm sure there is more, but those are what stand out. Keep in mind, Ford brought forward a lot of stuff to give the BA a strong impact with the public, unlike Holden which had a proven winner and only refreshed the cosmetics. With Territory launching a couple of years later, it obviously made sense to get the IRS into the Falcon as soon as possible.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

You could argue that Falcons and commodores would have sold better with diesels.
I arrived in Australia in 2003 and I noticed the general Public didn't want to buy a diesel. ( there are still many thinking this way) I came from the UK where diesel was all the rage - all cars in Asia were popular in Diesel.

here - not so we a different market - finally getting a great diesel in Ranger/everest whilst other countries are stopping Diesel

The Territory was based off the 1st Gen X5 and built with Falcon technology, they did really well to make it so cheap

somebody had the Chrystal on that one, but its easy to pick out things they could have done in hindsight

Looking at the small amount of diesel E Class and 3/5 Series around, one could say they weren’t justified in a sedan in this market. It may have been a different story at $30k Falcon price point but what did they have the 2.7 V6? I think the Barra would have made that redundant especially long distance driving where it returns good economy.
Going off what’s available used it appears the diesel X5 smashed the 3.0 petrol in sales which isn’t surprising. I imagine the thirsty and lethargically tall geared 4.0/btr combo did the Territory no favours, along with some quality control issues. Probably a moot point if production was maxed out although that sour taste could have deterred buyers from the later SZ Terry.

Often said the Falcon/Commodore were the reason why people stopped buying them. Not true, markets trend shifted as Chrysler 300, Kia Stinger, Mondeo, Liberty, Aurion etc would also find out.
Heavily off topic but going back to the original point of contention, I don’t think anyone in the ‘90s was predicting where the market would go when Falcon/Commdore were selling 6000+ cars/month and only farmers and tradies were buying utes.

[hayseed]

https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota...medium=partner

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Toyota are probably more innovative in some ways than others and don't get sufficient recognition for it it. Seehttps://www.ukessays.com/essays/marketing/oppurtunities-innovation-and-entrepreneurial-behaviour-in-toyota-marketing-essay.php



Perhaps testing things thoroughly and making gradual changes rather than rushing to the market with adequately tested products like the Ford powershift transmission is an innovation in itself.

That has nothing to do with innovation. I was at the MMC Oakazi plant in 2005 and saw first hand the Japanese work ethic. Knock off time bell rings and these guys just keep working away. They have twice as many people crammed into the same office space compared to us in Australia. There is very little office chat or banter. They just, work, work, work. If we worked as hard as them we would produce better quality products.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I know Boss answered this earlier, but I wanted to elaborate a little.

Exterior -

-All body panels were new pressings except the doors.
-The roof was the big one as it also meant new glass front and back.
-New lights front and rear. (big tooling money)
-All of this means big money on crash certification and engineering.


Interior -

-Basically all new save for a few minor carryover switches. New dash/door trims/steering wheel/carpet.
-All new seats (big development money here)
-New pedal box.
-Addition of side airbags.

Mechanical -

-All new V8 family.
-Heavily revised I6 (big money).
-Addition of Turbo I6.
-Revised BTR auto.
-Fly-by-wire throttle, new traction control operation. (big money).
-All new rear suspension sub-assembly. (This required a big structural change in the rear to support this - big money).
-New brake hardware across the range.

Then, all of this has to be made to work in unison, and build in unison. Lots of spending here.

I'm sure there is more, but those are what stand out. Keep in mind, Ford brought forward a lot of stuff to give the BA a strong impact with the public, unlike Holden which had a proven winner and only refreshed the cosmetics. With Territory launching a couple of years later, it obviously made sense to get the IRS into the Falcon as soon as possible.

more than I thought (I thought the roof & Glass was the same), so take back earlier comment about the VY-VZ comparison

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

That has nothing to do with innovation. I was at the MMC Oakazi plant in 2005 and saw first hand the Japanese work ethic. Knock off time bell rings and these guys just keep working away. They have twice as many people crammed into the same office space compared to us in Australia. There is very little office chat or banter. They just, work, work, work. If we worked as hard as them we would produce better quality products.

And it's also why the Japanese are so miserable. They are trying to change the culture over there to move the focus away from work, work, work. It's not a healthy way to live, and it's causing all sorts of issues for them.

I've heard stories of workers not prepared to leave work at knock off because they don't want to be seen by management leaving before they do, so they hang around for hours just to wait till management packs up. Crazy.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by smoo

Looking at the small amount of diesel E Class and 3/5 Series around, one could say they weren’t justified in a sedan in this market. It may have been a different story at $30k Falcon price point but what did they have the 2.7 V6? I think the Barra would have made that redundant especially long distance driving where it returns good economy.
Going off what’s available used it appears the diesel X5 smashed the 3.0 petrol in sales which isn’t surprising.

Yep Sales for Diesel sedan here would be abysmal, but just for comparisons look at 2008 FG n/a 0-100 7.1 with 10.5L/100
a similar sized car the 2008 Jag with the Territory 2.7 Diesel 0-100 8.5 with 7.5L/100. but of course the Jag costs a bit more


The BMW is different as the Diesel not only delivers better economy its quicker for the same purchase price

[Late braker]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Yep Sales for Diesel sedan here would be abysmal, but just for comparisons look at 2008 FG n/a 0-100 7.1 with 10.5L/100
a similar sized car the 2008 Jag with the Territory 2.7 Diesel 0-100 8.5 with 7.5L/100. but of course the Jag costs a bit more


The BMW is different as the Diesel not only delivers better economy its quicker for the same purchase price

I note that 5 series diesels are the vehicle of choice for NSW Highway Patrol cars on a recent trip to and from Melbourne. I pulled up at West Wyalong and they were filling the tank.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Late braker

I note that 5 series diesels are the vehicle of choice for NSW Highway Patrol cars on a recent trip to and from Melbourne. I pulled up at West Wyalong and they were filling the tank.

Yes I was going to mention that, soon there will be a full 2nd hand market of these. good looking cars too!
but this thread is already way off topic

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by smoo

I think the Barra would have made that redundant especially long distance driving where it returns good economy.

Totally, the simplicity, ruggedness and highway efficiency of the Barra worked well without the increased complexity and maintenance of the diesel* when the consumption difference is not that great. Our Barra 312,000 unopened now.

*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqXEmWfjz1s

and in Russian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDBuYPISe1Q

[Vekgib]

It's probably just me, but I can't work out what Barras, VY Commodores and 5 series BMW'S have to do with what Toyota do.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

It's probably just me, but I can't work out what Barras, VY Commodores and 5 series BMW'S have to do with what Toyota do.

Flow on effect of questions I guess. & its in the Pub section

I'm picking the mods have left it alone as the topic has done its dash & most other threads end up about EV's

[Sprintey]

True, the forums have evolved onward from every thread ending up about AUs

[Ben73]

Not even close to the highest I have seen on one. About 35,000kms off

[DJM83]

Toyotas are so flipping boring.... Yeah i know right.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/202...-website-mixup

Focus ST who?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Toyotas are so flipping boring.... Yeah i know right.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/202...-website-mixup

Focus ST who?

Saw that last night and was going to post it here.
This should also put to bed a few complaints that Toyota don't make a hot hatch anymore

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Saw that last night and was going to post it here.
This should also put to bed a few complaints that Toyota don't make a hot hatch anymore

I agree.
I mean the GR Yaris is kinda a hot hatch aswell, so this'll be the second one.
Would own either if im honest.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Toyotas are so flipping boring.... Yeah i know right.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/202...-website-mixup

Focus ST who?

Yeah Ford are in some hurt along with most other brands. I wish I could find the post but years ago I noted Toyota were the sleeping giant of the performance section. #trumpetblower

They have such a strong broad base that they have been slowly branching out now and to be honest good on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVNnpWk9IkA

It would be easy to fold now given how every other manufacturer is citing the end of ICE but Toyota have a bit in the pipe line.

Manual Supra coming as well, even though the "fans/market" called for it early they are delivering on that now too.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeah Ford are in some hurt along with most other brands. I wish I could find the post but years ago I noted Toyota were the sleeping giant of the performance section. #trumpetblower

They have such a strong broad base that they have been slowly branching out now and to be honest good on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVNnpWk9IkA

It would be easy to fold now given how every other manufacturer is citing the end of ICE but Toyota have a bit in the pipe line.

Manual Supra coming as well, even though the "fans/market" called for it early they are delivering on that now too.

Couldnt agree more.
Sad where Ford are at though.

Looks like that are trying to capitalise on sectors where other brands a leaving and good on them i say.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Toyotas are so flipping boring.... Yeah i know right.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/202...-website-mixup

Focus ST who?

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Saw that last night and was going to post it here.
This should also put to bed a few complaints that Toyota don't make a hot hatch anymore

Before we get too excited, what todays date?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Before we get too excited, what todays date?

Well fair play. But if they've played it as a gag for today its been a long time in the works, as theres been talk for ages, and ill look like a silly sausage

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Couldnt agree more.
Sad where Ford are at though.

Looks like that are trying to capitalise on sectors where other brands a leaving and good on them i say.

For me I see the Japanese as about the only ones who are still making an effort for the common people.

USA is generally a mess but are going through what Toyota did years ago, restructure, get volumes or make some story up about chasing margins etc...dont get me wrong they still have some good product but they rely on a couple of models only.

The Germans have lost the plot through their own technical brilliance, stupid emissions regs etc. They have priced them selves so high that I read about them now but dont even get that excited....RIP M division.

The Koreans are and have been on the move and seem to be following the Japanese path which is OK.

I find it hard to get excited about any sporty cars these days that dont come from Japan, although I think Toyota have slept with the wrong partner for the Supra and I hope the 400Z does well enough to prove that.

There efforts for the most part on the Hilux are token, I reckon they will do a better GR version too and not just the limp badge job they have currently. Perhaps once the Corolla is done.

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Well fair play. But if they've played it as a gag for today its been a long time in the works, as theres been talk for ages, and ill look like a silly sausage

D1ck move if they release the article on 31st March though.. at least date the story on the 1st of April if it is a gag

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by rare ss

D1ck move if they release the article on 31st March though.. at least date the story on the 1st of April if it is a gag

They have been talking about this over the course of the week, there had been teaser shots released over the last few days. So I doubt it is a April Fool but like you said, d1ck move if it is.

[GasoLane]

Love the people trying to be clever and avoid the censor (and having mods correcting them later) but you are allowed to say Dick

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Love the people trying to be clever and avoid the censor (and having mods correcting them later) but you are allowed to say Dick

Could you imagine if the Australian Ford Forum censored the name of one of Ford's greatest Australian legends!

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Love the people trying to be clever and avoid the censor (and having mods correcting them later) but you are allowed to say Dick

I'm sure last time I wrote dick it was censored.. I know crap was but yeah.. you loose the whole context of a sentence with ****

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Wretched

They have been talking about this over the course of the week, there had been teaser shots released over the last few days. So I doubt it is a April Fool but like you said, d1ck move if it is.

Looking less likely that im a silly sausage
https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/...specs-v-rivals

[FTE217]

The generalision take about Toy company isn't surprising for we have been invested Falcon people let alone the Holden fellas.
In saying that I recall my young times when so many loved their Toy Rolla 16VTwin Cams (talking Hatchs).
They were very popular and copped their beatings and survived well.
People are forgetting also the Z era - those 240/60's were a very nice Jap coupe with inline 6's..worth a mint nowadays.

Anyway lets move on, no matter that are supposed to be not like they used to be by many here they sell sell sell and I actually take my hat off to them.
They picked their targets and winning for a long long long time.
Range - how they keep do it compared to the rest is smart management and foresight.

By the way I never thought I'd own a Toy but my 09 SR5 dual cab near on 200k just eating up the normal consumables for a daily handed down to my no2 boy.
I'd buy another no worries IF I was going that style of transport again or Ranger Or Amarok.

[383hq]

Toyota Camry Cross over
April 1 or genuine attempt to get extra life out of the sedan given everyones buying SUVs?


At least they have a sense of humour !