Regular Unleaded banned from July '12

[Simple6]

From SMH -

Unleaded ban expected to cause rise in fuel prices
James Robertson
January 2, 2012
Read later

‘The majors are doing anything they can to stop ethanol' says David Zsynzcak, ethanol producer. Photo: Michele Mossop
NSW drivers could face more petrol price rises this year after the government bans regular unleaded fuel, pushing up demand for ethanol-blended and premium unleaded fuel, the industry has warned.

From July, petrol stations will no longer be permitted to sell regular unleaded petrol, because the government wants to promote renewable biofuels.

To meet demand, the state's only ethanol distiller, Manildra Group, will need to increase its production of ethanol-blended petrol to 300 megalitres by July, up from 250 megalitres last financial year, according to Ecco Consulting, an energy advisory firm.

Advertisement: Story continues below
''We believe demand will exceed supply,'' Jamie Jardine, a spokesman for BP, said. ''Consumers, particularly in rural areas, will have to pay more.''

Manildra did not return requests for comment.

An Australian Competition and Consumer Commission report on the issue last month warned of a ''significant impact'' on consumers, particularly those forced to pay for the much more expensive premium unleaded petrol if their cars cannot run on ethanol-based petrol, which is the case with all cars made before 1986.

The ACCC also warned of a potential national shortage of premium petrol.

In October, the government required 60 per cent of all fuel be ethanol-based. Current and former state governments had previously delayed the quotas because of concerns about the availability of ethanol fuel.

Mike Cochran, a director at Ecco, expects Manildra can produce enough ethanol petrol to provide for the government's target to be met by July. ''But it's cutting it very fine,'' he said.

Even if ethanol supply falls short, petrol would not be rationed. Under biofuels legislation, the government can give suppliers exemptions that allow them to sell regular petrol.

A spokesman for the Energy Minister, Chris Hartcher, said the government expected industry to meet targets but had granted exemptions in the past and would continue to consider them.

But there are concerns that ethanol-based fuel is becoming more expensive.

The ACCC found ethanol was increasing in price relative to regular unleaded petrol. Last year ethanol was 2.6¢ a litre cheaper; this year the difference fell to 1.7¢. Some motorists argue ethanol is already functionally more expensive because it provides less mileage than regular petrol. The NRMA says ethanol-fuel is between 1 and 3½ per cent less fuel efficient.

David Zsynzcak, of Dalby Biorefinery in Queensland, said his company supplied ethanol-blended fuel for 4¢ a litre less than unleaded petrol at some Sydney petrol stations but others did not pass on the discount. ''Clearly the majors are doing anything they can to stop ethanol,'' he said.

But the industry says consumers might also choose premium petrol in preference to ethanol, which might raise the price of premium fuel.

''Ethanol has proved very unpopular with customers,'' said Paul Zennaro, of Shell, which says it supports ethanol fuel but not through a mandated quota.

I know it's been discussed before and we knew they were going to remove it.

My thoughts are - I wish they'd subsidise it or somehow make it more attractive to people rather than force it upon them! I hate running E10 in my car (BA Fairmont) even though I know its not going to do it any serious damage. It's just I've experienced (as I know plenty of others have) poor economy, poor power & rough idle etc.

Hopefully more companies start selling 95 then I guess!

[Uncle Niceguy]

mmmm for any of our cars to be able to run economically after this would mean an ethanol based fuel system put in and a tune to sort out the usual issues so from my end it wouldn't be too bad

[Jim Goose]

Ethanol is rubbish (at least here in australia).
Increased fuel consumption in all the cars i have used it on.
Not to mention all the cars ran rougher noticably.

[TMC]

We can't even get ethanol blends here in WA. They can't ban straight unleaded with no alternative.

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by TMC

We can't even get ethanol blends here in WA. They can't ban straight unleaded with no alternative.

I've actually noticed a reduction in the availability of E10 in general. I think the refusal from people to accept E10 has meant the oil companies were switching back to a more even mix of E10 & Reg91.

At least when it first came out there was the discount of 4c/L over Reg91 but slowly it's been wittled back to almost nothing! So at least it was cheaper to have your car run like bucket of rubbish.

[Stazza_Brendan]

At the local servos i noticed they got rid of 91oct and replaced it with E10. Now in last few months E10 disappeared and 91 was brought back.

[Road Games]

I filled up at the BP on the corner of Peak Downs hwy and Bruce hwy and it felt weird straight away on 91 oct (factory tune) after re-filling at Gin Gin with Ultimate 98 for the run home it felt like i had tipped rocket fuel in her Brendan !!

[Stazza_Brendan]

Originally Posted by XR6menace

I filled up at the BP on the corner of Peak Downs hwy and Bruce hwy and it felt weird straight away on 91 oct (factory tune) after re-filling at Gin Gin with Ultimate 98 for the run home it felt like i had tipped rocket fuel in her Brendan !!

Was that Ultimate 98 from BP at intersection?
I had my car tuned more conservativly with timing due to mixed quality of fuel here.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by XR6menace

I filled up at the BP on the corner of Peak Downs hwy and Bruce hwy and it felt weird straight away on 91 oct (factory tune) after re-filling at Gin Gin with Ultimate 98 for the run home it felt like i had tipped rocket fuel in her Brendan !!

bottom caltex and top mobil ftw ... the fuel quality nothing to do with brand, it is those servos ....hard lesson in moranbah lol. but it still sticks the au hates that e10 stuff i have tried it a couple times only to end up driving a charf cutter .

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

bottom caltex and top mobil ftw ... the fuel quality nothing to do with brand, it is those servos ....hard lesson in moranbah lol. but it still sticks the au hates that e10 stuff i have tried it a couple times only to end up driving a charf cutter .

Bluepower tune is back in and Ultimate 98 is back in the tank ... I actually prefer the MOBIL 8000 but suggestion is it's the same stuff and Caltex Vortex 98 is the same and chocolate is actually bad for you and eggs are made from bacon so i give up ....

Ultimate works for me hence i tried the 91 stuff at BP as well

Wash up for economy on std tune i got 720kms out of 60L on 98 Ultimate and 625kms 58L on 91 std

Around town i get 12L avg 100km's on Ultimate 98 or 480km's or thereabouts and usually put around 53L in the tank...

[jmack]

thanks burnz ill give that a go

[AWD Chaser]

I run E10 in the Carnival... has no issues with idle, power, or fuel economy (I've accepted that a 2.1 ton box will never be fuel efficient).

I run 98 in the HSV, but am trying to find a United that has 100...

I tried e10 in the XR250, and it ran absolutley crap, just no power, and took longer to rev through the rev range. Put a tank of 98 through it and it was like a completly different engine... but the 250 is a carbie engine...

I personally think e10 is a waste of time... Didnt the US govt cut subsidies for e10 in the states?

EDIT:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75F5IN20110616

The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Thursday to eliminate billions of dollars in support for the U.S. ethanol industry, sending a strong message that the era of big taxpayer support for biofuels is ending.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by vanman_75

bottom caltex and top mobil ftw ... the fuel quality nothing to do with brand, it is those servos ....hard lesson in moranbah lol. but it still sticks the au hates that e10 stuff i have tried it a couple times only to end up driving a charf cutter .

Dont really understand what you mean by bottom caltex and top mobil but if you are talking about the mobil servo at moranbah i personally know the tanker drivers and i know where the fuel comes from and the mobil servo at moranbah is from bp refinery.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by teak81

Dont really understand what you mean by bottom caltex and top mobil but if you are talking about the mobil servo at moranbah i personally know the tanker drivers and i know where the fuel comes from and the mobil servo at moranbah is from bp refinery.

Yer sorry didn't add much to the fuel side of things , just that I know all the owners / workers at our local servos ...the ex actually worked at a couple of them for a few years .and the quality of fuel was dependant on the actual servo ( sorry if I was a bit misleading) I use bp at rocky with no issues . The best thing I have found as my guide to fuel is my blackbird it will let you know how good a fuel is , and it seems to run best on bp ultimate, runs like a dog on caltex .
Though diesel seems good at most . I was just adding that a lot of times its dodgy servos not dodgy fuel .

That is all my 2 cents

[XBROO]

I've always run premium so I'm not too worrried as long as they have 98. But yeah have ran a 98 enthanol blend in my old cruiser and ran like *****.

[Cúl-Báire]

The problem I find with E10 is it quite obviously doesn't meet 91RON; every car I have ever run on E10 runs like **** without exception - and modern cars generally need 95RON minimum.

Flawed policy this is, designed to push petrol prices up and raise further revenues though fuel excise.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

I hope 91 is abollished.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

.

Yeah in cars that are set up for e85.


My missus randomly told me her car runs like crap on e10 compared to 91. That's coming from someone who knows nothing about cars or fuel.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

I hope 91 is abollished.

You'd expect that general consensus on a forum like this.. E85 is horse **** and 98 is rocket fuel, right? The reality is that if an engine isn't tuned for a higher octane fuel (generally performance engines), it's pointless. If the factory says use 91 (many current Aus and Japanese cars, most older ones), then nothing suggests higher octane will be better for the engine.

I think people change their frame of mind in the car when changing fuel too. More should get their mate to fill the car up with one of the three and see if they can really tell the difference... blindly. The notion that 98/95 is 'better', is not correct. It's meant for a purpose, to be used by engines tuned to use it.

[Ford_The_Win]

I hope this doesn't apply to Victoria. I rarely, if ever see E10 at the local pumps.

[mik]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

I hope 91 is abollished.

it`s probably not tiresome if your one of the unlucky motorists that drives a car that runs poorly with the stuff, i notice mine stumbles on the stuff, that`s aside from the less k`s per tank.

[Cúl-Báire]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.
The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.
I hope 91 is abollished.

No issues using ethanol here, E85 works well if the vehilce is tuned for it, and I regularly use united's 95RON + Ethanol mix which seems to be the only one that my SS, XR6 and XR8 don't run like **** on.

I welcome higher octane fuels with Ethanol content, however as pointed out in a few of the posts above I am quite sceptical of the environmental benefits.

[csv8]

Shell has replaced E10 in QLD with 95ron. E10 wasn't successful in QLD. Only Independents stock it. Sugar belongs in my coffee not my tank...

[atec77]

Originally Posted by csv8

Shell has replaced E10 in QLD with 95ron. E10 wasn't successful in QLD. Only Independents stock it. Sugar belongs in my coffee not my tank...

95 runs well in the daily as does 98 also giving good milage , the e10 is rubbish pouring through the motor at silly rates and under low rev load knocking like an old spring bed in a house of ill repute , 95 minimum here

[bigdude1011]

I thought 91 octane ULP was already banned in NSW - when I go to Sydney, I can only get E10 from the servos.

I remember reading somewhere that it takes more energy to produce ethanol fuel than the amount of energy that ethanol produces (correct me if I'm wrong).

Bring on hydrogen fuel cells.

[Road Games]

Nah the green handle mate 91 $1.48 from memory ...

[Nikked]

E10 with its high octane rating and lower price

Win win.

91 is no loss, never used it anyway.

[BA-XT]

My wife always ran the E10 you get from United in her VT. Had to replace the fuel pump. Mechanic said to stay away from it. Since changing back to 91 it idles smoother and feels better.

When I fill up my BA I add Morleys fuel treatment. I'm getting 11.4L/100km averaged out over a few months.

I won't touch E10. It just doesn't smell right.

[Bucknaked]

Of course the bloke who makes Ethanol is going to have a whinge. Obviously he's not rich enough, the whinger needs to have a sook about it.

[AU1XLS]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Of course the bloke who makes Ethanol is going to have a whinge. Obviously he's not rich enough, the whinger needs to have a sook about it.

Why United are right into Ethanol
http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/me...y-bio-refinery