security camera systems

ebv8 · 21-02-2018, 09:35 AM

i'm thinking of buying a security camera system for my home
after joining a local facebook group of my area i keep finding out about crap going on and i want to protect my things or at least help catch the kids doing it

I have $65k worth of toys insured and $10k uninsured i worked out and i want to keep them all

i was looking at generic 8 camera systems from kogan for about $350

are they any good? can you clearly see faces from about 10-20m? do they work at night ok?

and do i run it through tv screen or are they only an online app viewable

i don't want to spend heaps of money just want one that works good enough

Pepscobra · 21-02-2018, 10:15 AM

Have a look at the Uniden systems. They are very good for the price and you can get them from HN. You just need a small computer screen (cheap enough to buy) and you can connect to wireless so you can view from anywhere in the world through the phone app.
They have a few different kits in different configurations, one which will be sure to suit.

whitelion65 · 21-02-2018, 10:21 AM

I have the Kogan system. It's "OK" from that distance. For what I want, I know who's on the frame (neighbour).
Make sure it comes with a HDD, or factor that into the price.
Make sure you check the legalities of what you can and can't monitor!

21-02-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebv8

I have $65k worth of toys insured and $10k uninsured i worked out and i want to keep them all

i was looking at generic 8 camera systems from kogan for about $350

i don't want to spend heaps of money just want one that works good enough

I'm not saying that you need to spend a fortune but don't try and get the cheapest setup you can. It's not unlike buying an $80'000 vehicle and then not wanting to pay for good tyres

ebv8 · 21-02-2018, 10:46 AM

i just want one that true 1080p and has a hdd so i can record for maybe a few days till a week. the wife is home during the day so its just at night as we are in a private road with no lights apart from sensor lights

do i need to wire up the cameras? they say wifi but what powers them?

i was thinking about setting the monitor up in my wardrobe so if i'm in bed i can swing the door open and check it out....see if i need to run the gun safe....jokes....

its not that bad of an area, we are up the hill from the bad area and the junkies don't like walking up the hills to my place

stig_3754 · 21-02-2018, 11:38 AM

I just recently got a Swann system (4 camerass), which is so far OK, but they come in BNC cables making it difficult to wire through the walls due to the girth of the sockets. The unit plugs to the router via cable only but you can connect to the system through your phone via an app which works generally well.

It detects motion with heat sensors so it detects people and animals etc, but doesn't pick up things like leaves blowing in the wind, and is set to record only when motion is detected (as currently setup). Quality is 1080HD, has night vision and the unit has a 1TB hard drive. Seems reasonable for the price but early days yet. Swann don't have the best rep amongst the experts. Got it from JB Hi Fi for $500.

bangm001 · 21-02-2018, 11:58 AM

I also have a Swann system, 8 cameras. Full HD. The camera quality is great, night time okay. My house is solid brick so easy to run the cables around, i had to buy extender BNC cables for 2 cameras directed at the front of my home.
I have it connected to my TV av channel so can switch over to it easy when sitting on the couch. I have my router in my lounge also so have connected it all up via the app and it works great. Only criticism I have with the Swann is I have had to replace the HDD and 1 camera so far (probably around 3 years old).
Note thought hat if serious offenders just switch off your power cameras go down also, therefore I would advice a UPS backup power unit and just power cameras direct at say the shed and driveway for example.

stig_3754 · 21-02-2018, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangm001

I also have a Swann system, 8 cameras. Full HD. The camera quality is great, night time okay. My house is solid brick so easy to run the cables around, i had to buy extender BNC cables for 2 cameras directed at the front of my home.
I have it connected to my TV av channel so can switch over to it easy when sitting on the couch. I have my router in my lounge also so have connected it all up via the app and it works great. Only criticism I have with the Swann is I have had to replace the HDD and 1 camera so far (probably around 3 years old).
Note thought hat if serious offenders just switch off your power cameras go down also, therefore I would advice a UPS backup power unit and just power cameras direct at say the shed and driveway for example.

Yes I need extenders for my 2 back cameras too. Yes a UPS is a great idea too for the Unit, cameras and Router if possible. I'll be looking into that next.

Mercury Bullet · 21-02-2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stig_3754

I just recently got a Swann system (4 camerass), which is so far OK, but they come in BNC cables making it difficult to wire through the walls due to the girth of the sockets. The unit plugs to the router via cable only but you can connect to the system through your phone via an app which works generally well.

It detects motion with heat sensors so it detects people and animals etc, but doesn't pick up things like leaves blowing in the wind, and is set to record only when motion is detected (as currently setup). Quality is 1080HD, has night vision and the unit has a 1TB hard drive. Seems reasonable for the price but early days yet. Swann don't have the best rep amongst the experts. Got it from JB Hi Fi for $500.

The fact it has bnc terminations tells me they know what theyre doing.
Cut the connectors off and re-terminate if it's a problem. bnc only cost a couple of bux and can be terminated in a couple of minutes, couple of seconds with experience and a crimp tool.

Swann have been around since these things first appeared.

The experts probably aren't that expert or have an agenda.
Good choice imo.

**FTE217** · 21-02-2018, 12:23 PM

good thread ebv8.
I'm only 10odd weeks in a new house and on the to do list is just this security.
By the look of some posts I'm not needing to spend $1k or so.
I'm hearing you leesa but it seems these products where once you had to pay high costs have improved some nowadays.
Sure I have some very valuable items incl the cars but as long as these sub $1k are reliable thats all I wish for - reliability.

Swan via JB's
Kogan website - I dislike buying products through the net when/if you got a prob, I like going to a local shop.
Any other brands to look into ?

stig_3754 · 21-02-2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

The fact it has bnc terminations tells me they know what theyre doing.
Cut the connectors off and re-terminate if it's a problem. bnc only cost a couple of bux and can be terminated in a couple of minutes, couple of seconds with experience and a crimp tool.

Swann have been around since these things first appeared.

The experts probably aren't that expert or have an agenda.
Good choice imo.

Whilst it's early days for me I tend to agree with you about Swann's rep. I think most of these 'experts' were reacting online to the annoyance that you can only seem to access the web console for these units via a PC running IE. No other browser and no other platform will load the plugin required.

As annoying as that is, the phone/tablet app appears to do the job fine.

bangm001 · 21-02-2018, 01:30 PM

In saying that, avoid the wireless swann security systems at all costs..

Mercury Bullet · 21-02-2018, 01:31 PM

Fair enough, I'm not in the security business but from a hardware standpoint they are up to the task.

Oops, posted in response to stig.

Trump · 21-02-2018, 01:40 PM

As a small FYI, no one in a professional capacity installs coax cameras in a greenfield situation, PoE IP cameras are far better in pretty much any application.

21-02-2018, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

The fact it has bnc terminations tells me they know what theyre doing.

What is it about BNC connectors that says they know what they're doing?

21-02-2018, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

I'm hearing you leesa but it seems these products where once you had to pay high costs have improved some nowadays.
Sure I have some very valuable items incl the cars but as long as these sub $1k are reliable thats all I wish for - reliability.

It's not quite as black and white unfortunately. The may work fine for a period of time, but may not have the picture quality that you're looking for, the software that goes with it, the upgradability down the track.

As an example, RTSP is a generally accepted standard for IP CCTV these days but if the system you buy uses some other protocol, you won't ever be able to swap out a failed camera with another type of camera, you'll be locked into replacing it with that vendor's equipment. If the vendor goes bust/goes bad/refuses support/warranty expires, you may aswell throw the whole system out as you'll have to re-buy something new.
But if you buy something that uses non-proprietary protocols and sticks with generally-accepted standards... you should be ok.

The HDDs they're recorded to also matter. Most platter-based drives aren't suitable for recording video as you'll get a sort of stammered video on playback, you won't get smooth movements. SSDs are better but still not great and I don't think anyone knows yet whether constant recording will prematurely kill those drives. There are now purpose-made platter drives specifically for constant writing (like recording camera footage) and they're great but they're about $300/3TB.

If you just want a basic system that does an okay job and will last a little while, they should be fine.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, just making some suggestions on what to keep in mind so you can be happy with what you pick.
(disclaimer: I don't work with cameras, just have a keen interest and set my own up)

How many areas do you have to monitor? Indoors or outdoors? Any nighttime monitoring? Do you have existing cat5/6/etc wired through your house?
What sort of internet service do you have at home? If ADSL, what up/down bandwidth do you get? Do you want to be able to watch your cameras when you're away or at work?

EGOG6ET · 21-02-2018, 02:01 PM

If your looking at a camera system spend a little extra and get an IP Camera system. These cameras use CAT5 Ethernet network cables instead of the BNC type. Most of these cameras are twice the resolution of the old analogue type and with IP systems most of the time the cameras are PoE which means they are powered through via the NVR so you dont need to have power supplies everywhere, which is a fire hazard. The Swann cameras are a good retail pack and are very easy to setup remote view from your phone. Another option if you have a spare PC is to download some NVR software, buy cameras and a PoE network switch. This is a little more complicated but you will get better quality cameras this way.

Junkyard-Dog · 21-02-2018, 02:12 PM

Constant writing to an SSD may kill it. After about 100 years...

Trump · 21-02-2018, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Constant writing to an SSD may kill it. After about 100 years...

Unless it's a top shelf enterprise SSD, the TBW (total bytes written) limit will be reached in no time at all with consumer SSD's. At that point, the drive becomes read only.

21-02-2018, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Constant writing to an SSD may kill it. After about 100 years...

Yeah I wasn't sure. I used an SSD for a couple of weeks but they don't seem to write as fast as the purpose-built video drives. At least that's my presumption on the difference.

I have (had - moved house recently) outdoor cameras recording 24/7 and little things like trees blowing in the breeze really show the recording ability of the drives. I compared the playback between a WD purple and a samsung SSD and the WD purple showed perfect playback, every movement is truly smooth. The SSD (and general grade platter HDDs) always showed slight jitter despite resolution and encoding types. Each camera wrote about 50gig per day and the drive never missed a beat even after a couple years 24/7 writing.

That's probably being a bit pedantic but I think I'm a perfectionist

bangm001 · 21-02-2018, 02:29 PM

Theres no doubt theres better systems out there, swann are budget entry level kits, like everything depends how big your wallett (and house) is.
For the price point im happy.

turbo4 · 21-02-2018, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EGOG6ET

If your looking at a camera system spend a little extra and get an IP Camera system. These cameras use CAT5 Ethernet network cables instead of the BNC type. Most of these cameras are twice the resolution of the old analogue type and with IP systems most of the time the cameras are PoE which means they are powered through via the NVR so you dont need to have power supplies everywhere, which is a fire hazard. The Swann cameras are a good retail pack and are very easy to setup remote view from your phone. Another option if you have a spare PC is to download some NVR software, buy cameras and a PoE network switch. This is a little more complicated but you will get better quality cameras this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesa

It's not quite as black and white unfortunately. The may work fine for a period of time, but may not have the picture quality that you're looking for, the software that goes with it, the upgradability down the track.

As an example, RTSP is a generally accepted standard for IP CCTV these days but if the system you buy uses some other protocol, you won't ever be able to swap out a failed camera with another type of camera, you'll be locked into replacing it with that vendor's equipment. If the vendor goes bust/goes bad/refuses support/warranty expires, you may aswell throw the whole system out as you'll have to re-buy something new.
But if you buy something that uses non-proprietary protocols and sticks with generally-accepted standards... you should be ok.

The HDDs they're recorded to also matter. Most platter-based drives aren't suitable for recording video as you'll get a sort of stammered video on playback, you won't get smooth movements. SSDs are better but still not great and I don't think anyone knows yet whether constant recording will prematurely kill those drives. There are now purpose-made platter drives specifically for constant writing (like recording camera footage) and they're great but they're about $300/3TB.

If you just want a basic system that does an okay job and will last a little while, they should be fine.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, just making some suggestions on what to keep in mind so you can be happy with what you pick.
(disclaimer: I don't work with cameras, just have a keen interest and set my own up)

How many areas do you have to monitor? Indoors or outdoors? Any nighttime monitoring? Do you have existing cat5/6/etc wired through your house?
What sort of internet service do you have at home? If ADSL, what up/down bandwidth do you get? Do you want to be able to watch your cameras when you're away or at work?

Some good points in both of these posts.
I thought I'd throw my 2-cents in, as I've worked as a security technician for about 8 years now.

Definitely get IP/network cameras. Not only are they better, having the cabling in place makes the system future proof and you shouldn't ever have to run replacement cable if you want to upgrade.

I'd recommend a WD Purple HDD, they are designed for surveillance use and are fairly affordable - 3TB is less than $150 and will give. SSD is far too expensive and would cost more than the rest of the security system.

Get dome style cameras as they are more difficult to tamper with.

I'm not going to suggest what brand to buy but make sure you look at the specifications of the recorder and cameras, the cheap systems are usually cheap for a reason. They will cut corners on things like recording capability(frame rate and resolution) or storage capability of the recorder.

Mercury Bullet · 21-02-2018, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leesa

What is it about BNC connectors that says they know what they're doing?

BNC is the standard in broadcast television worldwide.
It will hook up to anything considered "professional" and should run according to standards.

It automatically tells me they have half a clue..
That being said the old truism remains...you get what you pay for.

21-02-2018, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

BNC is the standard in broadcast television worldwide.

It's outdated tech though. What makes you choose it over an IP-based one?
I'd go IP every time

Mercury Bullet · 21-02-2018, 04:47 PM

I'm not saying that. I don't know anything about cctv systems.

All I'm saying is they are using gear which makes me think they know what they are doing.
I.e reputable.

BNC is far from outdated I'll give you the tip.

turbo4 · 21-02-2018, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I'm not saying that. I don't know anything about cctv systems.

All I'm saying is they are using gear which makes me think they know what they are doing.
I.e reputable.

BNC is far from outdated I'll give you the tip.

BNC was standard for almost all analogue CCTV systems, some entry level DIY systems did use a multi-pin connector that allowed video and power to be connected using a single plug.
While you can now get HD video across coax cable with BNC using a technology called HDCVI, you'd be mad not to use IP cameras. BNC and coaxial cable are outdated for security applications.

21-02-2018, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo4

I'd recommend a WD Purple HDD, they are designed for surveillance use and are fairly affordable - 3TB is less than $150 and will give.

Yup, me too. I just re-read one of my previous posts and it read as if I was saying the SSD went well for a couple years 24/7 writing but I should clarify that it was the WD Purple that I was referring to instead.
Its playback was completely free of stutter whereas the SSD and normal grade platter hdds had trouble writing 24/7 and the video playback reflected that. Probably not much of an issue though if you're only recording on motion detect and don't want completely smooth footage.

The camera brand that I went with is Hikvision, but from an approved aussie retailer not an alibaba job. They seem like a good mid-range camera and I used them for a couple of years with no issue.
All of the cameras' specs are listed on their websites with viewing angles, type of lens, supported framerates and protocols so you can pick out each camera for each area of your property.

Edit: I'll post some footage tonight if you're interested, OP?
When I was looking for a camera I couldn't find anywhere to actually show me the picture the camera produced and so had to guess based on specs. Being able to see a picture and reference its specification might be of some help?

Pepscobra · 21-02-2018, 05:58 PM

Any recommendations for good quality IP dome cameras please?
I'm interested in this topic, going to upgrade my home system.
Any good online sellers that I can purchase the components from and/or can help me put together a kit?

EGOG6ET · 21-02-2018, 07:03 PM

I would look at Samsung cameras. Not too expensive but good quality. Just make sure that your recorder is compatible. Most cameras today are Onvif compatible just make sure your NVR is too. Go for at least a 3mp camera for the areas where you are most concerned about. Then 2 MP for the other areas. Vandal dome with IR is what I would use.

Mercury Bullet · 21-02-2018, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo4

BNC was standard for almost all analogue CCTV systems, some entry level DIY systems did use a multi-pin connector that allowed video and power to be connected using a single plug.
While you can now get HD video across coax cable with BNC using a technology called HDCVI, you'd be mad not to use IP cameras. BNC and coaxial cable are outdated for security applications.

Cheers.
Yeah I'm sure there's better suited gear for the home, we would never use the internet or wireless.