Towing a Caravan - Mechanical strain etc

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Tell him to put that in writing from company letter, sign the document and hand it to you.... let me guess he won't do that!

Cheers.

Maybe not but it's towed a 2 tonne boat before my ownership no worries so I'm getting frustrated on these technicalities that don't seem real at all.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

How small?

Weigh 750kgs?

Cant say I've seen many (if ever)

Not that small. As mentioned, European vans are often designed to run around 5% ball weight. They are reasonably light as well. You could find a van around 1.5t that should suit your requirements. As long as it's correctly set up it should be fine.

Get on caravansales.com.au and have a search.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by prydey

Not that small. As mentioned, European vans are often designed to run around 5% ball weight. They are reasonably light as well. You could find a van around 1.5t that should suit your requirements. As long as it's correctly set up it should be fine.

Get on caravansales.com.au and have a search.

Mate the Van I want is 1400kgs.

10% is 140. My bar says 90kg. (2200 braked vehicle)

Hence I can't get it (according to here, others say no problem at all like Tassie F100

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

How small?

Weigh 750kgs?

Cant say I've seen many (if ever)

Probably the best small van around that weight would be the Avan A frame fold down.Around 3.5 metres long 750-800 kg, different interior layouts,as in either single bed each end or double at rear.Great litle van,but not real cheap.

[Pis-ton broke]

i,m not sure of your year but i googled r36 passat tow capacity and got this.
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...sclient=psy-ab

and
https://www.carsguide.com.au/volkswa...-capacity/2009
understand that unbraked is with NO brake assist for trailer, so this limits you to 750kg
if you have have electric or hydraulic brakes then the tow capacity is greatly increased. but i quickly looked at those numbers and they look to match or close to your caravan.

the 2009 r36 has a maximum braked capacity of 2200kg.(you install and electric brake controller in the car) .
if your van is 1400kg , your well under the maximum limit.

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

My bar says 90kg.

that bar is for towing box trailers around.

if your tow capacity numbers stack up, and it looks like they do.
get a heavy duty bar.

we did it all the time on the falcons, some towbars were to small so just get a high rated one. and an electric brake controller.

[MercuryT]

As previous mate my handbook says 2200 braked.

The towbar itself itself says 1500 braked (Haymen Reece)

The Tow ball limit is 85 0r something stupid which is causing all the problems.

I have no doubt it will pull a 1400kg van easily. Legally I was told I can't as Euro cars rate towbal capacity very low

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Mate the Van I want is 1400kgs.

10% is 140. My bar says 90kg. (2200 braked vehicle)

Hence I can't get it (according to here, others say no problem at all like Tassie F100

Sorry, i was unaware you had your eye already on a particular van.

Legally, you can't tow that van if the ball weight is higher than what VW specs are, which it appears it is.

There will be a reason why VW have put that limitation there. Its not just to annoy people that want to tow. It doesn't matter if it has towed heavy loads previously, or if other members say 'it will be fine'.

What I am suggesting is to just search for a different van that suits your needs and meets the specs of the car. Otherwise, look for a different tow vehicle as well. Legally, that's your options.

If you disregard the law, you may well find the car will tow the van you want fine.... If you want to take that chance, well thats up to you.

[XR Martin]

I'd be worried about the durability of the VW wheels with the excess weight.
They don't have a reputation for strength even without a load.

Google cracked vw wheels...

I knew someone who kept cracking Touareg wheels while towing.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

I'd be worried about the durability of the VW wheels with the excess weight.
They don't have a reputation for strength even without a load.

Google cracked vw wheels...

I knew someone who kept cracking Touareg wheels while towing.

So you are trying to say that it is alright to fill the back of the car with shopping and put 2-3 100 kg + passengers in the back seat, but you will crack wheels if you put 140 kg on the towbar.

[dunga]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

So you are trying to say that it is alright to fill the back of the car with shopping and put 2-3 100 kg + passengers in the back seat, but you will crack wheels if you put 140 kg on the towbar.

The static ball load on the tow bar is just that when the care is not moving what comes into play is the dynamic load it can increase many times the static load due to variations in the roads the manufacture take this into account when setting these limits the cars chassis is just not suitable for loads higher than recommended.

[hayseed]

Buy one of these..

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOWSAFE-...frcectupt=true

Go & see what the Actual Ball weight is of the van..
Maybe if you Load all your Luggage ect to the rear of the Van, You'll be able to get It down to 90Kgs...

[Pis-ton broke]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

As previous mate my handbook says 2200 braked.

The towbar itself itself says 1500 braked (Haymen Reece)

The Tow ball limit is 85 0r something stupid which is causing all the problems.

I have no doubt it will pull a 1400kg van easily. Legally I was told I can't as Euro cars rate towbal capacity very low

ok, sorry, i,m up to speed now.
to me i doesn,t make sense, the car can tow 2.2t with a ball weight of 90kg, thats less than 5% of 2200kg.

imo, at least 10% ball weight would be safer than 5% for towing, in fact some float manufactures would set there axles further to the rear of the trailer in a effort to aid towing balance. in contrast, a finely balanced trailer is more likely to dance around behind the car, possibly aiding a jack knife situation. european roads are better so that will help the trailer - car balance.

i think its good that your trying to figure it out, i towed horse floats for 30+ years and in all that time, me and no one else used to check ball weights, and the police didn,t check either.
but that didn,t mean we didn,t care, as we knew what that falcons could take, load wise. horse owners would always chat and compare how well there floats would tow, and float and car towing combinations.

if i was in your shoes , i would tow the van.
if your concern for ball weight ,you can internal adjust ball weight by moving weight around in the van, forwards or rearwards, or add a water tank. i did say before, buy a towbar weight tester. i still don,t own one.
https://www.campsmart.net.au/tow-bal...kaAhp2EALw_wcB

https://www.towbars2u.com.au/passat

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Buy one of these..

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOWSAFE-...frcectupt=true

Go & see what the Actual Ball weight is of the van..
Maybe if you Load all your Luggage ect to the rear of the Van, You'll be able to get It down to 90Kgs...

Actual ball weight of the Van is 150kgs.

The seller then advised he couldn't sell it to me (fine).

Then the local towing company said that's nonsense and at 1450kgs braked my car would pull it easily and tow ball weight vastly underrated and it's never checked anyway.

Hence I'm so confused.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

So you are trying to say that it is alright to fill the back of the car with shopping and put 2-3 100 kg + passengers in the back seat, but you will crack wheels if you put 140 kg on the towbar.

The manufacturer sets the limits for a reason. The rear axle will also have a weight limit. These ratings will be in the owners manual or available online or from the manufacturer.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Seems to me, as a late-comer and an outside observer, like there is a little confusion about what the towing limits are that are applicable and that some on here may be in need of some further reading to clarify the terms and requirements.

I'm sure other state organisations have similar pages, but perhaps this link will explain a little more:

https://www.racq.com.au/cars-and-dri...specifications

E: this article also has a good diagram and description:

https://magazine.rvdaily.com.au/rv-d...w-weight-legal

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Mate the Van I want is 1400kgs.

10% is 140. My bar says 90kg. (2200 braked vehicle)

Hence I can't get it (according to here, others say no problem at all like Tassie F100

Any caravan that has a tare ball weight over 90 kilograms stamped on its ID plate effectively stops you from towing it legally regardless what others here are telling you.

It really sux having a decent towing capacity to be hamstrung by your light tow ball rating designed by the car manufacturer.

[whitelion65]

After this thread, I decided I'd better check out my Mondeo.
I have the diesel with the heavy duty (1,600kg) towbar.
The figures I got from the web were many and varied. A quick check of the owners manual put my mind to rest; 1,600kg tow capacity (braked) with 160kg nose load, but consideration to be given to total rear axle load.
Now normally, I would tow around the 750kg (unbraked) load, but the manual says to use load levellers with the HD tow setup. This sets up an interesting dilemma; at what point do you "have" to use load levellers?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by whitelion65

. This sets up an interesting dilemma; at what point do you "have" to use load levellers?

I don't have my territory book handy so not sure if it says anything in there but it also has two tow bar specs. Standard and HD. Standard goes up to 1600kg, and HD up to 2300 (2700 for awd diesel). It does mention not to use load levellers with the std bar so one would assume you could tow up to that weight on the HD bar without them...

Having said that, they are more about ball weight than overall weight and trailers come in all different shapes and sizes so they can't really put an actual figure on it. Some trailers, like some horse floats have less weight up front while trailers like hard floor camper trailers have substantial ball weight due to the axle being rather rearward.

I'd say it would be based on how much your vehicle drops once the trailer is hooked up that determines whether or not you need to use them.

I'll check my manual once I get home and see what that says.

[Tassie f100]

Prydey.The reason different trailers have different axle configurations is so that when loaded the weight distribution is correct.A caravan is set up in the factory with very close to even weights front and rear,wheras a horse float has the wheels quite a bit towards the rear because when loaded with horse(s)the bulk of the weight is near the centre and rear of the float because of where the legs are fitted to the animal.Likewise boat trailers because of the weight of the outboard or engine and drive have the axles closer to the rear.As another poster said yacht trailers have the axles near the middle because there isn’t any real weight difference between front and rear

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't have my territory book handy so not sure if it says anything in there but it also has two tow bar specs. Standard and HD. Standard goes up to 1600kg, and HD up to 2300 (2700 for awd diesel). It does mention not to use load levellers with the std bar so one would assume you could tow up to that weight on the HD bar without them...

Having said that, they are more about ball weight than overall weight and trailers come in all different shapes and sizes so they can't really put an actual figure on it. Some trailers, like some horse floats have less weight up front while trailers like hard floor camper trailers have substantial ball weight due to the axle being rather rearward.

I'd say it would be based on how much your vehicle drops once the trailer is hooked up that determines whether or not you need to use them.

I'll check my manual once I get home and see what that says.

Most likely reason why standard tow bar prohibits the use of WDH is that some standard tow bars use bolt on tongues where the bolts could snap under pressure, this applied to me when I had my FG xr ute fitted with 1600kg tow bar where I had to put a heavy duty bar (2300kg with box hitch) on to use a WDH.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by whitelion65

After this thread, I decided I'd better check out my Mondeo.
I have the diesel with the heavy duty (1,600kg) towbar.
The figures I got from the web were many and varied. A quick check of the owners manual put my mind to rest; 1,600kg tow capacity (braked) with 160kg nose load, but consideration to be given to total rear axle load.
Now normally, I would tow around the 750kg (unbraked) load, but the manual says to use load levellers with the HD tow setup. This sets up an interesting dilemma; at what point do you "have" to use load levellers?

WDH should be used only when your trailer/van effects your steering & braking by throwing your weight back on the front axle/s, after all this is the primary purpose of WDH.

PS: Yes it does help the sag but you should really upgrade the suspension for sag issues.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Any caravan that has a tare ball weight over 90 kilograms stamped on its ID plate effectively stops you from towing it legally regardless what others here are telling you.

It really sux having a decent towing capacity to be hamstrung by your light tow ball rating designed by the car manufacturer.

Yes it has p^^sed me off quite massively.

I know it can tow it easy (having the quality Haymen Reece
a reason I bought it)

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Hence I'm so confused.

You want to drive a Passat AND tow a Caravan. I'm starting to see a pattern...

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

You want to drive a Passat AND tow a Caravan. I'm starting to see a pattern...

Ha.....the Passat is a pretty brilliant quick car I want to keep.

Was given a bumsteer by the seller with regard to towing but my fault for not checking!

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Yes it has p^^sed me off quite massively.

I know it can tow it easy (having the quality Haymen Reece
a reason I bought it)

I guess the upshot out of this, MT, is that, whilst you know your vehicle has been used to tow something heavier than what the car and tow bar were designed for and there doesn't appear to be any consequences as a result, was there any longer term damage caused as a result or could it make the car more susceptible to damage should you tow with it in the future, even if you follow the manufacturer's requirements here on out?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Oh, and the other thing to add, for the previous owner of your car, is that there is a saying related to this:

just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[MercuryT]

Looking at this one.

Passat should be fine!

[aussiblue]

John Cadogan's YouTube Auto Expert from today is very relevant and is actually one of his more watchable videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uj5b4lWyXM

[Pis-ton broke]

interesting video about load distribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-hUX8memY