Industrial relations worker legislation (end of an era) your thoughts

[phoon]

Originally Posted by deesun

The only way you compete with a third world country is to pay third world rates of pay which is obviously what the Howard Government wants. Then your $1 million dollar buisiness will be worthless because we wont be able to afford whatever it is you sell.

You are missing the whole point, we cant compete with Chinese wages, nobody is suggesting that we should be paying people 3rd world wages. My point is that if we stroll along the way we are and do nothing, you, me and everybody else will be unemployed. We have to make changes in the way we work and do things, otherwise we will be the 3rd world country. I understand people are scared about change, its human nature, but the emerging countries are not going to just go away. Change is inevitable, if we dont change, we will surely, literally and financially be the land down under.

[Ghiadude]

My take on this is ..
many people (like my dad) came to this country because wages and standard of living were high. if you started your business and now find yourself unable to compete(or more likely too lazy to find better ways of doing things) then you should do as my father did and move to another country like india or china that way you can stop your whining about how you have to pay such high wages and the rest of us can work for an honest living. I dont give a flying hoot whos business goes broke because they cant afford the wages thats the businesses fault for not being smart enough. The last time i looked the majority of people in this country worked for a living. we already struggle to pay our bills and now you want us to work for less just cos some business owner wants another shiny BMW for his wife?? screw the business owner, Govern for the people - not for the few in the vain hope that these few will provide for the rest, it never works.

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

I dont give a flying hoot whos business goes broke because they cant afford the wages thats the businesses fault for not being smart enough.

You should know business have to pay a minimum wage so I don't understand this comment. You also say you don't give a flying hoot about business going broke then in the quote below you winge about people struggling to pay their bills. You can't have it both way's, if the business goes broke then people won't be paying all their bills.

Originally Posted by tx3dude

The last time i looked the majority of people in this country worked for a living. we already struggle to pay our bills and now you want us to work for less just cos some business owner wants another shiny BMW for his wife?? .

Why should a business owner not be able to buy a car like this, it is his business and puts in all the hours and hard work. Why can't they enjoy the fruits of their labour. The reality is though most small business owners don't get to take much home with them because they are so busy pumping the money back into the business to keep it floating.

Maybe you should talk to a few business owners and find out for yourself.

[phoon]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

My take on this is ..
many people (like my dad) came to this country because wages and standard of living were high. if you started your business and now find yourself unable to compete(or more likely too lazy to find better ways of doing things) then you should do as my father did and move to another country like india or china that way you can stop your whining about how you have to pay such high wages and the rest of us can work for an honest living. I dont give a flying hoot whos business goes broke because they cant afford the wages thats the businesses fault for not being smart enough. The last time i looked the majority of people in this country worked for a living. we already struggle to pay our bills and now you want us to work for less just cos some business owner wants another shiny BMW for his wife?? screw the business owner, Govern for the people - not for the few in the vain hope that these few will provide for the rest, it never works.

This debate certainly seems to fire up peoples emotions, unfortunately common sense seems to go out the window when emotions become involved, hence irrational thoughts become the norm. Oh and by the way, the wife drives a shiny new Ford, not a BMW.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Has anyone seen my wifes BMW cos I'd love to trade it in for some cash flow!

[SpoolMan]

You dont buy those BMW's you lease them, let the tax right off pay for it..lol..

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by XRFPV8

You dont buy those BMW's you lease them, let the tax right off pay for it..lol..

How does that work, I was too busy giving myself a pay rise to remember!

[deesun]

Originally Posted by phoon

You are missing the whole point, we cant compete with Chinese wages, nobody is suggesting that we should be paying people 3rd world wages. My point is that if we stroll along the way we are and do nothing, you, me and everybody else will be unemployed. We have to make changes in the way we work and do things, otherwise we will be the 3rd world country. I understand people are scared about change, its human nature, but the emerging countries are not going to just go away. Change is inevitable, if we dont change, we will surely, literally and financially be the land down under.

I'm happy for some change but what is being proposed is too much change at one time and is giving too much power to the buisiness owners and not enough protection to those who need it. There is exploitation out theretoday so what will it be like if these laws come in.

[XAGSV8]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Has anyone seen my wifes BMW cos I'd love to trade it in for some cash flow!

Yeah she was driving past my place when she spotted my money vault with me in it cleaning all the extra revenue I was getting from hiring Indonesian’s and reducing the Aussie workers pay. She came up and asked me if I wanted to buy it so you could upgrade to a fully decked out 747. I said to her I couldn't fit the car in my yard as I already have 5 of them in different colours. I then told her to go away as I was enjoying some private time with my money. She should be home soon. Now if only I can terminate everybodys employment I can have all that money to myself. Damn no good for nothing employee's.

[MYV8]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

My take on this is ..
many people (like my dad) came to this country because wages and standard of living were high. if you started your business and now find yourself unable to compete(or more likely too lazy to find better ways of doing things) then you should do as my father did and move to another country like india or china that way you can stop your whining about how you have to pay such high wages and the rest of us can work for an honest living. I dont give a flying hoot whos business goes broke because they cant afford the wages thats the businesses fault for not being smart enough. The last time i looked the majority of people in this country worked for a living. we already struggle to pay our bills and now you want us to work for less just cos some business owner wants another shiny BMW for his wife?? screw the business owner, Govern for the people - not for the few in the vain hope that these few will provide for the rest, it never works.

That's the biggest load of crap I have ever heard!!!!!
It doesn't take Einstein to work out that if a company in China and a company here has the same machinery, produces things in the same manner, China pays $1 hour and I pay $20 hour, who makes the goods cheaper?
If I take my business offshore to make money, like your father, my workers go on the dole, that's real smart thinking to get the country moving ahead.
I would say you do not work for private enterprise who has to come up with the money to pay the wages, but more likely for some form of Govt dept that uses our money to pay you.
Maybe you should go to China and work there, if they are the smart country.
There commy ways might suit you.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by bindi

I don't think he and the gov't really understand how us workers live... I mean, if you and your boss come to an arrangement (in nearly all cases the business/boss will tell you what the agreement is), and if you say "No I don't agree, I'm not going to sign it" then you will no longer have a job, because then there is always someone else WHO WILL sign it.

Employers never like to see good employees go. Good employees are hard to find, recruiting and training staff is a pain. Many employers will do what they can to keep a good employee.

The employees that should worry are those that aren't necessarily great at their job, the ones that dont go the extra mile for their employer and/or workmates, the ones that only do the bare minimum.

Supply and demand cuts both ways. There are plenty of medicore employees out there, and its reasonable for them to compete against one another and hopefully lift their game and increase their productivity. The ones that are already good have no reason to worry.

Why is it always up to employers to offer more? Why cant employers expect more of their employees? The current balance is swung heavily in the employees' favour.

[gtfpv]

sounds like all our employees are bludgers bar a few . according to our employers here . in what ways can we do more sir.? give up some leave or work through lunch maybe . scrap long service leave maybe . if not than what ? I SAID I WASNT GOING TO POST ANY MORE BUT NOTICE MORE EMPLOYERS HAVING A SAY HERE . SO WHAT IS IT THAT WE NEED TO DO MORE OF MATE . ( SORRY BOUT the caps ) what are us mere workers so not doing .?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ltd

Long story short, the ruling was that he was incapable of working and that I had followed all of the correct procedures but I should still give him $10,000.00 within 4 weeks on top of the bonus I gave him at the termination of his employment.

It really sucks, doesnt it? Even though an ex-employee can be found with no case, I hear too often about the business having to compensate the employee anyway.

We had an employee take 'stress leave'. She basically made up a whole bunch of garbage about the discrimination/vistimisation she faced at work. She took the company to Anti Discrimination (some Human Rights tribunal), had it thrown out. The insurer refused to pay her Workers Comp claim because the evidence was clear that she was making false statements/claims about her condition. In the end it went to the Workers Comp Commission, who ruled she had no case.

But, even so, the insurer was ordered to pay her wages up until then, and the company was ordered to pay accrued entitlements, including those accrued over the period she was on 'stress leave' (she was still technically employed by us because you cant sack someone on Workers Comp).

And therein lies the problem - employees know that if they want, they can drag employers through these various processes wihtout fear of penalty for false claims, and that in all likelihood, they'll get some money for their troubles at the very least. It defies all logic.

Quite frankly, its about bloody time these ridiculous unfair dismissal were scrapped for smaller businesses who can least afford the cost that they impose.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

sounds like all our employees are bludgers bar a few . according to our employers here . in what ways can we do more sir.? give up some leave or work through lunch maybe . scrap long service leave maybe . if not than what ? I SAID I WASNT GOING TO POST ANY MORE BUT NOTICE MORE EMPLOYERS HAVING A SAY HERE . SO WHAT IS IT THAT WE NEED TO DO MORE OF MATE . ( SORRY BOUT the caps ) what are us mere workers so not doing .?

Largely comes down to attitude. Some employees refuse to work during their breaks and the rare occasion its needed, even though the employer will let them take it later. Some employees refuse to do overtime, ever, even when on the rare occasion there's a pressing need. Some are quick to point out that 'its not part of my job description to do that' even though on the rare occasion there's a pressing need. Some employees just dont see themselves as part of a team - they only see whats in it for them.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by b0son

Largely comes down to attitude. Some employees refuse to work during their breaks and the rare occasion its needed, even though the employer will let them take it later. Some employees refuse to do overtime, ever, even when on the rare occasion there's a pressing need. Some are quick to point out that 'its not part of my job description to do that' even though on the rare occasion there's a pressing need. Some employees just dont see themselves as part of a team - they only see whats in it for them.

got to agree that is a fair comment .

[Ghiadude]

ok the way i now read it is that the workers of australia should all sacrifice their hard fought wages and conditions so that someone elses business can be alitlle bit profitable... am i right... so that businesses here can compete with those overseas???
um no not if i can help it...if you want your business to compete then like i said... go there... but you wont... why? because you like the standard of life and security that our wages provide.. what happens when the workers of australia cant pay there bills?? crime ... and then youll be saying what has happened to this great country of ours???

no i wont subsidise the success of your business!

[XA-Coupe]

Originally Posted by tx3dude

no i wont subsidise the success of your business!

Here's a thought.. if the business goes bust then you won't have to worry about subsidising the success of anything except your endeavours in finding a new job.
As usual, compromise is the key but as usual, neither side will.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by XA Coupe

As usual, compromise is the key but as usual, neither side will.

That is the smartest thing said in this entire thread!

[RED_EL_XR8]

Could we compromise this thread ?

[SpoolMan]

Where is there a problem, we have low inflation, low interest rates, low unemployment.
Executive salary's are at a record high, Profits are looking good... Bankruptcy numbers is low... consumer spending has been very good over the last few years..new car sales are very strong with record numbers..
The only valid point i have seen out of this apparently its hard to get rid of a worker that doesn't put in or do the right thing..

[XA-Coupe]

Actually, even though it's been relativlely well behaved it's time to can the thread. People are getting a little worked up and the marches have passed.
It's time for the back room deals to be done from here.