Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21-01-2017, 08:02 AM   #91
FTE
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
FTE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Townsville North Queensland
Posts: 547
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Sprint gets the FPV engine with lower power than the final Gt = a win
Holden use the same engine as entry level HSV and add MRC which is from higher spec HSV and equals a fail and called a sticker pack.... i don't get it.
__________________
Our Tickford cars:

2001 Congo Green AU 111 XR8 sedan, manual option 2G body kit but now wears the Rebel kit

1997 EL GT Sparkling Burgundy, sunroof, auto.

Our former Tickford cars:

1997 XH11 XR8
1998 AU XR8 manual sedan
1999 AU XR8 manual ute
2002 AU XR8 auto sedan, sunroof
FTE is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 21-01-2017, 10:46 AM   #92
arronm
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
 
arronm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,256
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasen View Post
There the worst color scheme since the R-Spec.

I think it was the wheels that made it look Fugly.

But its not only ford that does it.







__________________
BA BF FPV starter button repairs. PM me.


Nizpro equipped and Tuned by the BEST in the west
Xtreme Ford Tuning

479RwKw Fuel limited, more pumps and power too come.

F6#0507 & #0639 Pro racer and Tech expert

NIZPRO modifying falcons like Premcar can only dream of , see VIDEO below.
https://youtu.be/oa4IfguGQ-A
arronm is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 21-01-2017, 11:02 AM   #93
Chopped
as in chopped
 
Chopped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,998
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

I still think the R-Spec GT will be the most collectible, has the fastest printed times and also its in your face look. It's iconic and defines this era.

Lurking the forum from the dark side, looks like these special edition Holdens are almost sold out. A few guys reporting that they can't find any dealers who have any to sell. All presold months ago.

Mid seventies on road......, I think I'd try to stretch that bit further for a LSA Clubsport.
__________________
-> Reading this signature was pointless <-
Chopped is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 12:01 PM   #94
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

G'day all ..This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzTTkVqfujU&t=59s is why we love our Falcons..so much scope to upgrade...not so in your face as Holdens plan to do but..the sleeper of all sleepers...
Re the R Spec FG GT... I used to think they were a bit over the top until I actually saw one...As a full fledged GT ..they're as they need to be. right at you like " Look out of the way I'm here boys ".
The XR's though have never been meant to be like that so unless there really was to be a proper FGX GT. the FGX XR 8 , the FGX XR6T , the FGX XR8 Sprint and the FGX XR6 Sprint , understated but genuine to the XR history was just the right homage to them..
They're the silent assassins ...Just right for me..
The 2017 last iliterations of Commodore could do worse than follow the Ford lead in that regard..Cheers Rod..
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 12:31 PM   #95
Iggle Piggle
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopped View Post
...A few guys reporting that they can't find any dealers who have any to sell. All presold months ago...
Wonder if any of those dealers will find one or two to sell in about 2 months time...for slightly more than current RRP.

Granted there will no doubt be a few come up through genuine 'finance fell through'...but with reports of dealers paying RRP for 'regular' ex-company cars at internal auctions (and even more than RRP for desired combos)...

Last edited by Iggle Piggle; 21-01-2017 at 12:41 PM.
Iggle Piggle is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 02:53 PM   #96
Mainforcepatrol
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 215
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob 351 View Post
Might be just me but the VF is starting to look very dated. These new limited editions remind me of the old VK-VL Vacationer.. Very soft!
Not sure what issue people had with the fgx especially the front i think Ford did well with the front and rear and it still looks the goods.VF was dated when released imo with the front end as the styling was really soft with with the Korean influence of their other models.
Mainforcepatrol is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 03:22 PM   #97
arronm
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
 
arronm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,256
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Sit in a VF Redline and then sit in a Sprint. Then tell me which one is dated...... Sprint =2008
__________________
BA BF FPV starter button repairs. PM me.


Nizpro equipped and Tuned by the BEST in the west
Xtreme Ford Tuning

479RwKw Fuel limited, more pumps and power too come.

F6#0507 & #0639 Pro racer and Tech expert

NIZPRO modifying falcons like Premcar can only dream of , see VIDEO below.
https://youtu.be/oa4IfguGQ-A
arronm is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 21-01-2017, 04:14 PM   #98
FG50T
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
FG50T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 937
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

There's too many models to really have a something "collectable ($$$)" in the future. Look at the old cars that are really worth big bucks these days. The GT's and GTS's, Coupes and HDT's. The ESP isn't even hitting values like it probably deserves to and there's not that many of them.
FG50T is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 21-01-2017, 04:15 PM   #99
Sprintey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Sprintey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,349
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

The cars have created that bit of specialness already, having to be endurance tested in Detroit as only higher Spec Camaros/Corevettes are.

Add to that end of V8 discounts, dealers panic-bidding GM fleet auction, most production already sold, and it sounds like a win for GMH tbh
Sprintey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 04:29 PM   #100
Express
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
 
Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,548
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopped
I still think the R-Spec GT will be the most collectible, has the fastest printed times and also its in your face look. It's iconic and defines this era.

Lurking the forum from the dark side, looks like these special edition Holdens are almost sold out. A few guys reporting that they can't find any dealers who have any to sell. All presold months ago.

Mid seventies on road......, I think I'd try to stretch that bit further for a LSA Clubsport.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle View Post
Wonder if any of those dealers will find one or two to sell in about 2 months time...for slightly more than current RRP.

Granted there will no doubt be a few come up through genuine 'finance fell through'...but with reports of dealers paying RRP for 'regular' ex-company cars at internal auctions (and even more than RRP for desired combos)...

Holden has already allocated the number of cars each dealer can have and the allocation numbers were very low, e,g, many only got one or two of the Directors to offer customers.

Potential buyers are saying the Magnums are gone or hard to find and what’s left of the Directors are now being offered at about $79k well over RRP with prices including $5k for dealer charges.

There are still Motorsports editions to be had and the price of those will increase as the numbers decrease.

It’ll be interesting to see how many newly delivered cars return to the market as private sales where the owners try to make a quick profit.

I'd still go for the LSA HSV's at those prices.


.
Express is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 06:09 PM   #101
malazn mafia
Boss 335
 
malazn mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,344
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm View Post
Sit in a VF Redline and then sit in a Sprint. Then tell me which one is dated...... Sprint =2008
Sadly have to agree. Holden got the last jump in interior design. The difference between FG-X and VF is like how the EF made the VR Commodore look laughable like something from 1988, and the BA made the VY look like an incongruent tacked together failed attempt at modern post-2000 interior .
malazn mafia is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 21-01-2017, 07:44 PM   #102
FTE
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
FTE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Townsville North Queensland
Posts: 547
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

VR was a continuation of VN from 1988. Dash was different though with carryover instrument cluster but im sure its not interchangeable.
VY SS looks better than BA.

I like the VR interior. Loved my VR GTS

__________________
Our Tickford cars:

2001 Congo Green AU 111 XR8 sedan, manual option 2G body kit but now wears the Rebel kit

1997 EL GT Sparkling Burgundy, sunroof, auto.

Our former Tickford cars:

1997 XH11 XR8
1998 AU XR8 manual sedan
1999 AU XR8 manual ute
2002 AU XR8 auto sedan, sunroof
FTE is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 08:19 PM   #103
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm View Post
Sit in a VF Redline and then sit in a Sprint. Then tell me which one is dated...... Sprint =2008
G'day. In fairness. let's tell the whole story though... The FG/FGX had the hobbles put on for upgrades not least the interior. What few bob they had was mostly sent to the drivetrain and exterior trim features ..Makes it hard to go with the newer VF stuff...It is pretty good though..for a Holden I must admit..
The lack of that means little to the Sprint owners by all accounts .. The car drive ability is why they wanted the final Falcon to focus on the mighty turbo six and the awesome V8 as a priority..I think they succeeded...
I agree , a few more upgrades would have been nice but that was never going to happen via the cheapskates at Ford HQ..
I only have a Mk1 FG XR6..plain jane but I still like the nice XR embossed black cloth interior , the distinctive XR blue instruments , the argent trim..and most importantly how she goes as my pride'n joy..
I'm green with envy though of a few nice touches and special features of the final FGX's.. Very nice indeed...
Cheers Rod...
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-01-2017, 11:15 PM   #104
tranquilized
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,114
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Express View Post
who in Australia needs heated seats (why not cooled seats instead)?
I love my heated seats on those all too frequent sub-zero degree mornings we get here in central Vic.

Gonna be 35+ tomorrow though so cooled seats would be nice too...
tranquilized is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2017, 12:48 AM   #105
Express
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
 
Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,548
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquilized View Post
I love my heated seats on those all too frequent sub-zero degree mornings we get here in central Vic.

Gonna be 35+ tomorrow though so cooled seats would be nice too...
I never bother to switch heated seats on, they make me want to go to the loo.


.
Express is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 01:26 AM   #106
arronm
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
 
arronm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,256
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Bakes the brownies????
__________________
BA BF FPV starter button repairs. PM me.


Nizpro equipped and Tuned by the BEST in the west
Xtreme Ford Tuning

479RwKw Fuel limited, more pumps and power too come.

F6#0507 & #0639 Pro racer and Tech expert

NIZPRO modifying falcons like Premcar can only dream of , see VIDEO below.
https://youtu.be/oa4IfguGQ-A
arronm is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 01:57 AM   #107
Express
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
 
Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,548
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm View Post
Bakes the brownies????
Softens

It's the bladder that warms up in my case.
Express is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 08:02 AM   #108
PooDog
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
PooDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: nz
Posts: 1,816
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by malazn mafia View Post
Sadly have to agree. Holden got the last jump in interior design. The difference between FG-X and VF is like how the EF made the VR Commodore look laughable like something from 1988, and the BA made the VY look like an incongruent tacked together failed attempt at modern post-2000 interior .
agree with what you say i think holdens always had ugly interiors until the vf , remember the first time i looked in a ve ....little bit of sick came up to my mouth and screw your face up in disbelief ....fgx is ok just no wow and really couldnt figure why they went back to silver bits, oh well

one thing , i quite liked the vf when it first came out but theyre starting to date i reckon , where the fgx i hated ....but now the more i see them the more they have a sort of prescence? .....classiness

maybe its because i have one ....dunno ?
__________________
Fgx xr8 winter white manual, gone but not forgotten
22 mitsubishi outlander XLS PHEV

Au11 fairmont Ghia ported gt40p heads ,comp springs and locks
Xe 264 cam,custom intake,pacemaker tri y headers
524nm torque

19 Triton GSXR manual
PooDog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2017, 10:59 AM   #109
Angeldust
Regular Member
 
Angeldust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 300
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

I think they've done an excellent job, especially the motorsport ed. If you think about it its almost the same spec as the earlier E series 3 GTS's. ie LS3, MRC, big brakes and extra oil coolers. The only thing I can think off that I can complain about is the price, which is from what I read ~ 70K...

Would look great next to my HRT clubsport..
__________________
:

Z series Clubsport HRT edition..
e46 320ci 2.2ltr Stocko
Angeldust is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2017, 11:03 AM   #110
Interceptor
HSV - I just ate one!
 
Interceptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 3,102
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

at the moment it appears that its actually pretty difficult to order a new build V8, be it a calais, SS, SSV or redline

just dont ask who I work for.....
__________________
I dont care if some prius driving eco-hippy thinks its politically incorrect for me to drive a V8..... I'm paying for the fuel!
Interceptor is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 03:09 PM   #111
Dr Smith
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,378
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm View Post
Sit in a VF Redline and then sit in a Sprint. Then tell me which one is dated...... Sprint =2008
There never was a full local commitment to FG-X until....an Aust Federal gov wanting to avoid problems before a looming election and some quick OS trips to Dearborn added with some Vic Gov/Aust gov and US Ford commitment led to the FG-X program...we were lucky to get anything that came out after FG.
Dr Smith is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 04:37 PM   #112
Express
Bathed In A Yellow Glow
 
Express's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NSW Central Coast
Posts: 2,548
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interceptor View Post
at the moment it appears that its actually pretty difficult to order a new build V8, be it a calais, SS, SSV or redline

just dont ask who I work for.....
Holden has already dropped the SSV from their model lineup.


.
Express is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2017, 08:01 PM   #113
nickd
Passionate Ford XD XE nut
 
nickd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 494
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm View Post
Sit in a VF Redline and then sit in a Sprint. Then tell me which one is dated...... Sprint =2008
At first when I had the opitunity to drive the new FG-X series in 2014 at You Yangs Fords Proving Grounds I was what a brilliant car but the interior let it down being the same from the BA series seats to the FG dash etc to be honest I was disappointed with what Ford had done to the last Falcon.

But...

Then you jump in a Holden VF SS Redline and you feel sick like you've done something wrong being a Ford true blue Enthusiat from day dot you drive one and think WOW!!! Sounds amazing drives amazing interior is upto date technology like the European and Japanese cars then you wonder why Holden have just done so well.

All in all honesty the last Holden have produced the best commodore till date.

Ford were just too cheap to spend the money on producing a better upto date car.
__________________
If your into XD XE ESP Ghia, Dick Johnson Grand Prix Turbo, AIT,Phase 5&6, Interceptors, SPaK

(Admin of ESPGhia.com)

http://espghia.com/forum.php
nickd is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
6 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 08:52 PM   #114
malazn mafia
Boss 335
 
malazn mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,344
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTE View Post
VR was a continuation of VN from 1988. Dash was different though with carryover instrument cluster but im sure its not interchangeable.
VY SS looks better than BA.

I like the VR interior. Loved my VR GTS

image
To each his own, but even the EA GL interior eats that interior for breakfast. EF is even better and one of the highlights of locally designed vehicles of the 90s.
malazn mafia is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2017, 09:00 PM   #115
Focus RS
Starter Motor
 
Focus RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Surrey Hills
Posts: 26
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

All Directors pre sold before the official announcement last Thursday

All Magnum Utes sold out this weekend

All manual SSV redline motor sport editions appear to be sold out this weekend

A small amount of auto Motor Sport editions remain

Still Available on limited allocation to dealers Calais V8, SS and SSV- Redlines sedans and Utes

SV6 Utes not many left and ute production to end mid year

Cheers

Paul
__________________
GT-F Octane manual #397
Pursuit white manual #43
XR-8 Sprint white #564
W1 arriving mid 2017
Focus RS is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 09:03 PM   #116
FTE
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
FTE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Townsville North Queensland
Posts: 547
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by malazn mafia View Post
but even the EA GL interior eats that interior for breakfast..
Pffft yeah right
__________________
Our Tickford cars:

2001 Congo Green AU 111 XR8 sedan, manual option 2G body kit but now wears the Rebel kit

1997 EL GT Sparkling Burgundy, sunroof, auto.

Our former Tickford cars:

1997 XH11 XR8
1998 AU XR8 manual sedan
1999 AU XR8 manual ute
2002 AU XR8 auto sedan, sunroof
FTE is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2017, 09:57 PM   #117
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0son View Post
****y trim aside, its not a bad sendoff IMO... I wonder if a Falcon could survive this test:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/515482/2...ack-certified/
How many owners will do a 24 hr enduro is a commo though? They would have been better off putting the money into a better engine imo.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 23-01-2017, 10:15 AM   #118
Sioso
irregular member
 
Sioso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,459
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

They may be selling ok but I think it is because there is no more to come not because they are anything overly special.
The very last chance to make a ltd ed V8 Commodore and it doesn't get a single KW or NM over the standard SS!
Sioso is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 23-01-2017, 10:40 AM   #119
Wretched
Render unto Caesar
 
Wretched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,224
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
How many owners will do a 24 hr enduro is a commo though? They would have been better off putting the money into a better engine imo.
I think you missed the point of it.
It isn't about whether an owner will do a 24 hr race it is just to showcase an certify the endurance ability of the drivetrain, that it can handle 24 hr continuous race pace.
As many here would know, even just doing a few laps on a circuit can take its toll on a full road spec car.
****y or not the cars can do it and it is not dissimilar to manufacturers using motorsport as a marketing tool.
__________________
"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson
Wretched is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 23-01-2017, 01:04 PM   #120
pwr4ce
Regular Member
Donating Member2
 
pwr4ce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 908
Default Re: Final Commodores for 2017

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickd View Post
Then you jump in a Holden VF SS Redline and you feel sick like you've done something wrong being a Ford true blue Enthusiat from day dot you drive one and think WOW!!! Sounds amazing drives amazing interior is upto date technology like the European and Japanese cars then you wonder why Holden have just done so well.

All in all honesty the last Holden have produced the best commodore till date.

Ford were just too cheap to spend the money on producing a better upto date car.
tend to agree with this.

i went from BF to SYII Territory and missed the FG styling until I got my FGX last year. I didnt mind it as it was all still "New" to me and a far cry over the BA/BF/SY styling so I was fairly happy

Then...

My brother got himself a current SSV Redline. One ride in it I realised how cheaply Ford had done things with the last of the Falcons - which is a real shame. The SSV Redline is really nice car and I was super impressed. For about the same money it was much better value in my opinion.
__________________
MY18 Mustang GT
MY18 Everest Trend
Harley Davidson FXBRS
pwr4ce is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL