$40.00 saves me $385

[shane3]

Originally Posted by Gilesie

You were doing almost 50% over the speed limit and you still justify it.

get real, I now understand why the hoon laws were brought in.

you should think yourself lucky that they did not take your car off you
This is not like an oversite where you accidently creeped over the limit it was intentional and now we are expected to feel sorry for you.

and for all of you saying how hard he was done by I would like you to see what happens to a grown man that has done nothing wrong have a childs face in his windscreen

Mate no one is feeling sorry for me!

You have read my post? it tells you the circumstance of me being booked, It was 11.30 at night, no one around (except for the cops) and 4 lanes wide, I will also add that I was in the far right hand lane next to the white line that runs down the middle of the road, so the left lane was clear.

You are realy stuck on this "my brother hit a kid" but you still haven't told us if your brother killed the kid or not?
As a young kid I have been knocked over by a car as well as sent flying by a guy on a honda glodwing (walked out in front of the bus!) couple of scratches and some bruising but nothing big.
And as you have said "I would like you to see what happens to a grown man that has done nothing wrong have a child's face in his windscreen"
again let me point out to you that your brother was doing nothing wrong, the kid is at fault.

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by Gilesie

and for all of you saying how hard he was done by I would like you to see what happens to a grown man that has done nothing wrong have a childs face in his windscreen

First up, nobody is feeling sorry for anyone, theres no need to, what we are doing is encouraging the "stick it to the man" attitude. He's openly admited he broke the law, but theres no harm in him doing what he can to save his hip pocket.

The idea of a fine is SUPOSED TO BE primarily a deterant, secondly a punishment, and LASTLY to cover the costs of the policing involved to issue that fine in the first place.

The way things have gone now though is fines are primarily government revenue, secondly, cost covering, thirdly punishment, and LASTLY DETERENT (especialy when your hidden behind a bush - that deters nobody).

Punishing people for something thats already happened and raising revenue does not prevent accidents like the one your brother had, the only way to prevent accidents is to detere people from the dangerous behaviour to begin with. If police made thier prescence known you would find the ammount of dangerous driving would reduce, but so would the amount of fines - thus the revenue - this is why they do it

Youve said it yourself, your brother did nothing wrong and the accident still happened, so it doesnt matter weather your speeding or not, breaking the law or not, or wearing jocks or boxers, you could hit someone either way, which makes the whole brother ordeal a little irrelevant in this discussion.

I say use every avenue available to get away with anything you can, weathere its right or not. I dont ride a high horse, some things that people get away with I think they shouldnt have, but I still say good on them for having the backbone to question it in the first place.

After all, the law can take us down on technecalities (1km over the limit, spare tyre defects, not indicating for long enough, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, etc etc), so were all just as well in our rights to get off on technicalities too to offset the cut and dry wording of some laws.

Lighten up.

[Bucknaked]

Thanks for sharing Shane, but it appears that the know it all's are in fine form in this thread.

[toyxr8]

Shane, congrats at beating the revenue hunters at thier own game.....

Gilesie, take a chill pill, i think you should look into therapy,hang ups like that
arent healthy.....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by shane3

Snip - I asked them to provide me with the proof that the hand held devise was up to Australian standards and conforms to the National Measurement Act 1960 in respect of its use for making measurements for any legal purpose as well as a whole heap of other legal stuff (2 pages), as well as follow up letters.
The "charges" have been dismissed, and no further action will be taken.
So my $40 has saved me $285.

A much under utilised function at law.

A certain fed LIB MP knows this stuff well.

Your point was valid.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Gilesie

My brother had done everything legaly
You have no idea of what the police put you through with such an accident so your comments are very unfair.@ outbackjack

My point was this happened whilst he obeying the law

But whilst everybody is praising shane3 for getting away with it would you have the same opinion if his actions had directly affected you.

Althogh I am more amazed that the mods are allowing the praising of illegal activities to continue.

Gilesie - your tale is clear evidence, yet again, that 'speed limit conditioning' is deadly. Anyone who drives at or very near a speed limit set according to the numerals on an aluminium sign, or as one of the two defacto's is legal, but also at risk.

Safe speed and what constitutes it - is not a constant. Hence in learner driver training, as part of long term national harmonisation we adopt hazard perception.

You will see 'speed derestriction' return to certain highway lengths one day, here, you better choose the right speed, WHATEVER that might be because the state will not always guide you by telling you how fast to drive.

A speed-limit is the legal maximum you may travel, it does not represent the safe speed for all hours, vehicle and driver condition or weather.

I'll target anyone driving unsafely - at any speed, for certain dangerous and lazy offences; tailgating, no or insufficient indicator etc and so on.

You last quoted sentence is why, in society we have some 'balance', - now trying to stifle debate and discussion of the topic - through simplistic advocacy to ban it does no good whatsoever.

[robbo_yobbo]

^^^ agreed - some of the best points on the whole forums in that passage.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by robbo_yobbo

First up, nobody is feeling sorry for anyone, theres no need to, what we are doing is encouraging the "stick it to the man" attitude. He's openly admited he broke the law, but theres no harm in him doing what he can to save his hip pocket.

The idea of a fine is SUPOSED TO BE primarily a deterant, secondly a punishment, and LASTLY to cover the costs of the policing involved to issue that fine in the first place.

The way things have gone now though is fines are primarily government revenue, secondly, cost covering, thirdly punishment, and LASTLY DETERENT (especialy when your hidden behind a bush - that deters nobody).

Punishing people for something thats already happened and raising revenue does not prevent accidents like the one your brother had, the only way to prevent accidents is to detere people from the dangerous behaviour to begin with. If police made thier prescence known you would find the ammount of dangerous driving would reduce, but so would the amount of fines - thus the revenue - this is why they do it

Youve said it yourself, your brother did nothing wrong and the accident still happened, so it doesnt matter weather your speeding or not, breaking the law or not, or wearing jocks or boxers, you could hit someone either way, which makes the whole brother ordeal a little irrelevant in this discussion.

I say use every avenue available to get away with anything you can, weathere its right or not. I dont ride a high horse, some things that people get away with I think they shouldnt have, but I still say good on them for having the backbone to question it in the first place.

After all, the law can take us down on technecalities (1km over the limit, spare tyre defects, not indicating for long enough, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, etc etc), so were all just as well in our rights to get off on technicalities too to offset the cut and dry wording of some laws.

Lighten up.

Good post and I couldn't agree more.

[X000BOSS]

Originally Posted by shane3

Well my $40 "waste of money" as some said, has saved me $385.00 as well as having my license suspended for a month (meaning I get to keep it), all from printing out 3 letters and $1.50 in stamps.

just a quick question. did you have a clean driving record previous to this incident? or a few other previous speeding fines? just curious as to whether you got off due to the info you posted or to the infringement processing mob being leniant(sp) with you.

please let us now because if you've been booked for speeding in the last few years i will be downloaded the ebook for sure. (just in case).

[Hunter]

Does anyone know if they're not allowed to operate speed camera vans on hills here in QLD? I think I got done on Saturday night while testing my wheel bearings... was going down a hill, listening to the car and didn't realise there was a speed camera sitting just ahead of me and then I look at the speedo and I'm doing about 68-70 in 60 but only because I had let the car glide down the hill before braking back down to 60.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Gilesie

Althogh I am more amazed that the mods are allowing the praising of illegal activities to continue.

Illegal? My good man this is Australia, a country where we have the right to defend ourself against accusations placed upon us by anyone... including the state. Now whilst speeding is most certainly an offense... utilising a document such as this is certainly not as black and white as is being portrayed.

The law is black and white but the framework surrounding the application of said law is filled with a million shades of grey.

How is one supposed to defend one's self without knowing the details of the laws - common and statute - under which the state charges us? In this particular instance - "If you're gonna charge me based on the reading from that machine, you'd better make sure the thing is accurate and that it was being used appropriately"

As far as i am concerned this is no different to forking out big dollars to have a lawyer represent you in a court of law where the state is prosecuting you for committing alleged offenses.

Whilst i dont think it's terribly prudent to then come onto the internet and state that you were indeed breaking the law, i dont see the harm in using a document such as the one being discussed here.

You think the state doesnt have its own dirty tricks manual? I mean, after all... that is all this book represents. But if you dont have the right to educate yourself about the law... well the system is more messed up than i initially thought.

[EdFairmontGhia]

Thats awesome, a bit of leg work and preperation and paper work and you can avoid a fine. I think more drivers should take this option, obviously people shouldn't be speeding anyway, but if the cops were more visable, then we'd deffinetly slow down, which is think is the point....

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Illegal? My good man this is Australia, a country where we have the right to defend ourself against accusations placed upon us by anyone... including the state. Now whilst speeding is most certainly an offense... utilising a document such as this is certainly not as black and white as is being portrayed.

The law is black and white but the framework surrounding the application of said law is filled with a million shades of grey.

How is one supposed to defend one's self without knowing the details of the laws - common and statute - under which the state charges us? In this particular instance - "If you're gonna charge me based on the reading from that machine, you'd better make sure the thing is accurate and that it was being used appropriately"

As far as i am concerned this is no different to forking out big dollars to have a lawyer represent you in a court of law where the state is prosecuting you for committing alleged offenses.

Whilst i dont think it's terribly prudent to then come onto the internet and state that you were indeed breaking the law, i dont see the harm in using a document such as the one being discussed here.

You think the state doesnt have its own dirty tricks manual? I mean, after all... that is all this book represents. But if you dont have the right to educate yourself about the law... well the system is more messed up than i initially thought.

That is extremely well thought out and put together!!!
It is for those reasons alone that I have also ordered the book and, having read through it, I can certainly see the benefit of the knowledge it contains. For-warned is for-armed.
Congrats Shane3, glad to see others are fed up with the garbage sprouted to us about the road toll and cameras etc, saving lives and doing something about it. When the silent majority become the vocal majority things will change.

[Van D]

I think some people need to chill a little as I wouldn't want to see this thread closed.

The fact that the site actually works and wasn't a waste of money is good information, as despite many people on here saying 'you do the crime, you do the time' you'd have to be kidding yourself if you were to say you haven't go a few k over, or in some cases gone 10+ over the limit on deserted roads etc, or just being caught out by sneaky cops in a dodgy way, say, the bottom of hills. I even surprised myself as I borrowed the folks BA falc today, that in a 40 zone on a back road (Glasgow road in Kilsyth/Montrose if anyone knows it) I was going a bit over 60 whilst on the straight past the school (well after school hours, it's still 40 on school holidays/weekends etc). With that momentary lapse (I was paying more attention to the road then the speedo and as the BA is more powerful/heavy than the XF, and is an auto, it felt like I was going a lot slower) I could have lost my license. After I realised, I slowed right down to 40 and to be honest I thought it was such a ridiculous speed to be doing. It's a tight/narrow road, but I never felt I was doing an unsafe speed whilst concentrating on the road, and if I had gotten a speeding ticket, it would have being for about 10 seconds of not looking at my speedo on a windy road.

Gilesie - Whilst I feel real bad for your brother, the fact that he WAS doing the speed limit just shows that the road is a dangerous place no matter what, and accidents happen. Your brother was doing the speed limit and still unfortunately hit the kid on the bike, the roads not just dangerous if a person goes over the limit (after all, they're just signs posted up on a pole, not a real indication of a safe driving speed).

[shane3]

Originally Posted by X000BOSS

just a quick question. did you have a clean driving record previous to this incident? or a few other previous speeding fines? just curious as to whether you got off due to the info you posted or to the infringement processing mob being leniant(sp) with you.

please let us now because if you've been booked for speeding in the last few years i will be downloaded the ebook for sure. (just in case).

LOL, my driving record is like a well use nappy!!!!, I have had my license canceled once, had it suspended 7 times (once for 12 months from riding a motor bike that wasn't registered, I only had a learners permit and it was a 650 cc not a 250cc and a bit over the speed limit) and have payed in the past (but never again) well over $8,500.00 in fines and court costs in 15 1/2 years of driving/riding a motor vehicle on the roads.

[Scott]

Must have really suprised you to be pulled over then, with that much practice you could have taken the ticket book off him and gone the "self service" route.

[shane3]

I now also know that the prosecuting officer/person HAS to be a registered member of the law institute, a police prosecutor is not allowed to represent the police force if they are NOT a trained lawyer, barrister or a solicitor, 99% of them are not.

[PHoeNiX]

not a dig at shane, but i love how these threads can become a 'lets take a dig at the cops' thread - hey robbo yobbo.

the cars are there for a reason. most of the time, they will be visible and will not have to pull anyone over as most will see the car and slow down....a most sedired effect. however, sometimes people must be pulled over. not for the cops to raise a revenue, but because they are instructed to. you really think that the cops are the ones that need the money?? government funding!!
ai ya!!
over it......now.

Brenton

[V3RSAC3]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Does anyone know if they're not allowed to operate speed camera vans on hills here in QLD? I think I got done on Saturday night while testing my wheel bearings... was going down a hill, listening to the car and didn't realise there was a speed camera sitting just ahead of me and then I look at the speedo and I'm doing about 68-70 in 60 but only because I had let the car glide down the hill before braking back down to 60.

did u see a flash??ifnot u'll be fine ... and depending on location, and lanes, the speed camera only get's the cars that go Past it from Behind, not on comming vehicles ...

and congrats to shane for getting off of ur ticket ... ive been over the speedlimit a few times, but never on a single or double laned road, with people around ... i think the best time, if any, would be to do it in an opened space with nobody around, and as long as u felt comfortable at he speeds u were doing, and not pushing your car, then IMO i don't see how u were hooning it, nor doing anything dangerous ... as long as u were alert to you're surroundings ... IMO!!!

[kpcart]

thats a dumb oppinion, and how accidents happen "oh i thought it would be ok...." go to a race track if you want to speed.
And people complaing about speed cameras is idiotic, speeding fines a VOLUNTARY TAX. dont speed and you wont get fined, simple.
im dobing in a hoon tomorrow, probably has a similar mindset to the guy above, Hes a p plater, lives around the corner from me, bought himself a modified VN, now seems to think its ok to drive on my street with his white cap and tafe mates, at 80 or 90km/h in a 50 zone. My kid brother is always crossing the street on his skaetboard or rollerblades, and if he speeds past my house again after i report him, im knocking on his door and soughting the young out. too many losers like him in australia, just got his license and now thinks hes king of the road.

[jonk]

shane3, I bought the ebook, a long read in one session but well worth it. btw, what letter did you send off ? Was it the 'Request Leniency' form by any chance ? Can't believe people actually manage to get out of a fine with that one.

[Outbackjack]

I bought the ebook as well..... Very interesting read. I recomend that everyone buys this and reads it. It would seem that what state governments are doing is far more illegal and immoral than someone that slips over a posted speed limit by a couple of speedo needle widths.

Thaks for the heads up Shane3.

My sister is a barrister. I got here to read it as well. Her research so far confirms the documents accuracy.

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

Originally Posted by shane3

I know it's a Friday night but what ever your smoking...STOP???,

Stick to the subject, I used a legal loop hole to beat the bastards at there own game.

You Broke the LAW... and to make matters worse you lied about it to get off... thats the sort of thing my 4 year old does.

You Do the Crime, You do the Time

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by NudgE^SIKBRO

You Broke the LAW... and to make matters worse you lied about it to get off... thats the sort of thing my 4 year old does.

You Do the Crime, You do the Time

Your attitude might change a bit if you educate yourself a little with regards to what has been raised here.

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by NudgE^SIKBRO

You Broke the LAW... and to make matters worse you lied about it to get off... thats the sort of thing my 4 year old does.
You Do the Crime, You do the Time

Theres no help for you is there?? :

Originally Posted by Brenton

not a dig at shane, but i love how these threads can become a 'lets take a dig at the cops' thread - hey robbo yobbo.

Im not quite sure where your going with this (encouraging or discouraging the threads direction), but I thought the whole point of the thread was allong the lines of "I beat the cops at thier own game" . And by cops, Im pretty sure most people mean government too, but the cops are the ones getting mentioned because thier the ones at the front line in this event (and your first point of contact with the government on almost any traffic event)

Originally Posted by Brenton

the cars are there for a reason. most of the time, they will be visible and will not have to pull anyone over as most will see the car and slow down....a most sedired effect. however, sometimes people must be pulled over. not for the cops to raise a revenue, but because they are instructed to. you really think that the cops are the ones that need the money?? government funding!!
ai ya!!
over it......now.

Brenton

And here your totaly correct. I dont think anyone disputes this either, and I dont think anyone has suggested that the officer to pull you over gets cash out of it. The cops are forced to hide behind bushes and use sneaky tactics for a number of reasons.....
In some instances, the instruction may have been directly told that they need to hide behind the bush to catch people.....
in other instances they may have been forced to hide behind the bush, not by desire to be sneaky, but because theyve been told "you need to fine 'x' number of people today or your directing traffic for a week" - and they know that sneaky tactics are the only way to do it.....
and then theres just that rogue cop who does it for the fun of it and enjoys the praise he gets for doing such a great job when he gets back to the station when he counts out all the fines he issued today.

All these reasons to hide behind bushes stems back to someone pushing/encouraging officers to pull over as many people as possible, however they can, and require and expect results from them that leave them no choice but to employ sneaky tactics. They are discouraged from using thier own logical discression as that is left to the courts (which most people wont take it to)

Point of the matter is, while the cops dont get a direct financial benefit out of finning more people, the groups that are responsible for paying there way do, and this is where the encouragement to use more and more sneaky tactics is coming from.
With this in mind, just because the cop didnt want to be behind the bush, or doesnt personaly benefit, does not mean its not revenue raising, because the person ultimateley responsible for him being behind that bush, wanted him there.

Do you think (most) cops would bother pulling anyone over or fining anyone at all if it werent for the fact that they'd get reeamed back at the station for not pulling enough dollars by the end of the day?

[Silentsfastcar]

I might have to invest in the book aswell!! in 12 months ive been caught speeding twice, both were doing about 110kph in 100 zones (i do alot of country driving) late at night omw to marion bay in south australia. you can go an hour without seeing a car either way out there but cops just sit there!
Now ill be able to do my cruising at 100 - 110 without so much worry

speed limits should still be 120 kph out there imo anway

[V3RSAC3]

Originally Posted by kpcart

... bought himself a modified VN, ...

explains it all

and im not a p-plater so : ... nor do i promote speeding!!

[robbo_yobbo]

Originally Posted by kpcart

thats a dumb oppinion, and how accidents happen "oh i thought it would be ok...." go to a race track if you want to speed.
And people complaing about speed cameras is idiotic, speeding fines a VOLUNTARY TAX. dont speed and you wont get fined, simple.
im dobing in a hoon tomorrow, probably has a similar mindset to the guy above, Hes a p plater, lives around the corner from me, bought himself a modified VN, now seems to think its ok to drive on my street with his white cap and tafe mates, at 80 or 90km/h in a 50 zone. My kid brother is always crossing the street on his skaetboard or rollerblades, and if he speeds past my house again after i report him, im knocking on his door and soughting the young out. too many losers like him in australia, just got his license and now thinks hes king of the road.

your a stooge. I have a white cap, actualy two of them! whats your opinion of me??

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by kpcart

thats a dumb oppinion, and how accidents happen "oh i thought it would be ok...." go to a race track if you want to speed.
And people complaing about speed cameras is idiotic, speeding fines a VOLUNTARY TAX. dont speed and you wont get fined, simple.
im dobing in a hoon tomorrow, probably has a similar mindset to the guy above, Hes a p plater, lives around the corner from me, bought himself a modified VN, now seems to think its ok to drive on my street with his white cap and tafe mates, at 80 or 90km/h in a 50 zone. My kid brother is always crossing the street on his skaetboard or rollerblades, and if he speeds past my house again after i report him, im knocking on his door and soughting the young out. too many losers like him in australia, just got his license and now thinks hes king of the road.

Go to a skate park if you want to skate. Too many people in Australia sufferning the concequences of moron parents setting bad examples of how to behave on or near a road. I almost took out a mother and child after the stupid woman took her kid out of her car on the ROAD SIDE, parked a mile off the gutter with a narrow lane.

Here's a few ideas to reduce your chances of getting hit by a car...

USE SOME COMMON SENSE:
Teach kids the dangers at a YOUNG AGE
Avoid exiting car on road side
CROSS THE ROAD AT A CROSSING
DON'T WALK ON THE RED- ie, don't be an impatient .


So pretty much use the facilities that have been provided to you- A BRAIN, EYES and CROSSINGS (at the cost of taxpayers, so you might as well use them.)

[shane3]

Originally Posted by NudgE^SIKBRO

You Broke the LAW... and to make matters worse you lied about it to get off... thats the sort of thing my 4 year old does.

You Do the Crime, You do the Time

WTF!!!! How the fruck was I lieing, all I asked is for them to prove that the radar that they use was accurate, and they couldn't!!!!!!!!! AND by there own rules the cops (the car or any other police vehicle) has to be in plain sight NOT hidden!

The 3 letters that I sent off were the condition of acceptance letters.