Heard anything about the hurricane?

[ImpulseTaco]

I'm curious what the news down there has been saying about Katrina and whats been going on in New Orleans.
What is ya'lls take on things?

[M14A-Mclaren]

Pretty much that its real bad and why whoever was responsible stuffed it up so bad. I've been looking at satelitte pics, pretty hardout.

[ImpulseTaco]

thats part of it, along with the people living there going nuts.

[EA2BA]

Yeah the riots, looting, people stuck in building with no water and running out of food, the goevernment not doing anything to help, a story about a lady whose husband died at the side of the raod, and the cops just patrolling the raod doing nothing, 3 days later body still there.

We get alot of the human interest side of things I would say, and probably not the real facts as to why so little appears to be done, the media are evil.

[MITCHAY]

To me it seems like the government has left them out to dry. I would have never of thought a disaster like this has been handled so terribly. Yes disasters happen but i thought a big country like America wouldnt have so much diffculty in recovering in comparison to other countrys. I was gob smacked when i saw the footage.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

To me it seems like the government has left them out to dry. I would have never of thought a disaster like this has been handled so terribly. Yes disasters happen but i thought a big country like America wouldnt have so much diffculty in recovering in comparison to other countrys. I was gob smacked when i saw the footage.

I'd do a bit of research of the actual scale of this natural disaster and do some more research on what is actually being done before making comment about another country based on media sensationalism.

The civil unrest sure does seem unbelievable by Australian standards, generally we have a "lets all pitch in attitude". But we have had instances of looting before after Bushfire and Flood and given the scale of this disaster I an a bit slower to judge.

[MITCHAY]

Point taken. It just seems that more could be done. Like when they wouldnt let the Aussie officials in. That surely would of helped a bit. Little bits add up. Anyways best wishes for all them and hope they have some sense of normality returned to them soon.

[gozza]

whats hapenning with the new hurricane?

[Black XR6]

I think the disaster is of a huge scale. Looting is against the law but what do you do when you cant just go to the corner store and buy your groceries etc, you must get it somehow. I dont aprove of the stealng of anything other than essential stuff. It does surprise me that the US hasnt brought in the national guard to go through and drag out bodies day in day out. Atleast they would be doing something.

[Sourbastard]

For everyone who cant understand how the "worlds most powerful" richest, biggest whatever you wish to use in that sentence can "allow" this to happen, keep in mind the scope of the disaster and the size/impact of a category 5 storm.

Also consider the geography of the New Orleans area. It was always going to flood from a Cat5 hurricane, the area is below sea level. So with that in mind, lets say you have a weeks notice that its going to hit, and a full understanding of what will occur.

So you stockpile, water, food, survival equipment. So where do you put it? Where do you store supplies for that many people in an area that wont be effected by a storm that will spread damage over *many* states? No point gathering all this gear just to watch it get washed away, wind damaged, or marooned on high ground.

Law enforcement. It was always going to be an issue. You just cant push the police out in a pair of floaties and expect them to keep the peace. Air power isnt an option, as alot of your equipment is going to be storm damaged, and if it isnt, you better hope you have fuel to run it on. Anyone got a 1,000 or so boats for patrol and S&R that they can provide inside 1 week? By the way you cant arrest anyone, nowhere to put them, so you will be required to shoot every perp, and you might as well shoot to kill, as theres no operational hospitals for them to go into. Thats not a decision every cop wants to make.

The amounts of logistics is huge, and noone would have been able to repsond quickly, because the distances, damage and sheer complexity of the situation isnt easy to respond to.

"It cant happen here?" Heh, wanna bet?
"It shouldnt happen here?" Would be nice if it didnt, but it will again.

[Tote]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

For everyone who cant understand how the "worlds most powerful" richest, biggest whatever you wish to use in that sentence can "allow" this to happen, keep in mind the scope of the disaster and the size/impact of a category 5 storm.

Also consider the geography of the New Orleans area. It was always going to flood from a Cat5 hurricane, the area is below sea level. So with that in mind, lets say you have a weeks notice that its going to hit, and a full understanding of what will occur.

Hence we shall outsource the maintainence of the levees and defer the funding for the raising of them to a higher level

Originally Posted by sourbastard

So you stockpile, water, food, survival equipment. So where do you put it? Where do you store supplies for that many people in an area that wont be effected by a storm that will spread damage over *many* states? No point gathering all this gear just to watch it get washed away, wind damaged, or marooned on high ground.

Isn't that what the American taxpayers should expect a government to work out, after all the government should be responsible for the things that individuals cannot do and that private enterprise will not do due to there no being a buck in it for them

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Law enforcement. It was always going to be an issue. You just cant push the police out in a pair of floaties and expect them to keep the peace. Air power isnt an option, as alot of your equipment is going to be storm damaged, and if it isnt, you better hope you have fuel to run it on. Anyone got a 1,000 or so boats for patrol and S&R that they can provide inside 1 week? By the way you cant arrest anyone, nowhere to put them, so you will be required to shoot every perp, and you might as well shoot to kill, as theres no operational hospitals for them to go into. Thats not a decision every cop wants to make.

Agreed but it's a pity that the National guard who perform a lot of the tasks that our SES do here is severely depleted due to a large proportion of it's Mississippi and Louisiana forces being in Iraq

Originally Posted by sourbastard

The amounts of logistics is huge, and noone would have been able to repsond quickly, because the distances, damage and sheer complexity of the situation isnt easy to respond to.

In the time it took to evacuate the superdome you could have driven a bus to Canada and back

Originally Posted by sourbastard

"It cant happen here?" Heh, wanna bet?
"It shouldnt happen here?" Would be nice if it didnt, but it will again.

Can't disagree with the last one but the government has to bear the blame for segmentation and lack of coordination of relief services as well as a lack of planning control and levee maintainence in New Orleans. It is interesting to observe the effect of government dilution of responsibility through outsourcing and making private industry responsible for what should be done by the government for the taxpayers and compare it with the push here to sell Telstra.
Regards,
Tote

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Tote

Hence we shall outsource the maintainence of the levees and defer the funding for the raising of them to a higher level

I think you might find thats a local government decision

Originally Posted by Tote

Isn't that what the American taxpayers should expect a government to work out, after all the government should be responsible for the things that individuals cannot do and that private enterprise will not do due to there no being a buck in it for them

Its not easy to plan for an event that has not occured yet, nor know where it will hit, nor its magnitude. Elements can be done, but you simply cant plan for every contingency, nor location. You can allocate blame where you see fit, but nature is a heartless b1tch to contend with.

Originally Posted by Tote

Agreed but it's a pity that the National guard who perform a lot of the tasks that our SES do here is severely depleted due to a large proportion of it's Mississippi and Louisiana forces being in Iraq

Yep, I dont doubt thats an issue at all.

Originally Posted by Tote

In the time it took to evacuate the superdome you could have driven a bus to Canada and back

Ive actually done that from Alabama to Winepeg, it may look quick on paper, but it aint. Besides, its not just a matter of picking up people and dropping them off at a 711. You have to get them to a shelter capable of supporting them, that is fully stocked, and ready to take casualties. No point moving people to "safety" so they can die there instead of in "danger"

Originally Posted by Tote

Can't disagree with the last one but the government has to bear the blame for segmentation and lack of coordination of relief services as well as a lack of planning control and levee maintainence in New Orleans. It is interesting to observe the effect of government dilution of responsibility through outsourcing and making private industry responsible for what should be done by the government for the taxpayers and compare it with the push here to sell Telstra.
Regards,
Tote

I agree, privatization is simply a bad way to go, they have no duty to public interest, only to profit. Can you imagine private industry being asked to complete the Snowy Mountains Scheme? I Shudder to think.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Point taken. It just seems that more could be done. Like when they wouldnt let the Aussie officials in.

Mitchay You live in Canberra, You've driven by DFAT, now take a look at the people you see, and ask yourself, would you let them near a flooded river if you didn't have the time or manpower to get them back out? :hihi:

[Black XR6]

To a point sourbastard is right. But they do know when these storms are going to hit and their sizes and expected damage. Every night on the news there in hurricane season they update the current hurricanes off the coast and the directions they will hit and expected landfall date. So I dont believe they didnt have some time to organise relief efforts.

As for the argument that it is very involved and complicated. Think about how involved and complicated any war would be to organise and keep track of as the war continues. I dare say that is a damn site tougher than this disaster.

Food and medical supplies could have been stored in any number of cities in the vicinity. Flown there by any number of aircraft the US have at their disposal. Same could be said for thier wounded. Fly em out via chopper to those same cities to makeshift hospitals. Again, what do you think happens in war? They leave those wounded there to die cos its inconvenient to access the area? Sure the magnitude of the disaster is on a massive scale. But if any country in the world is equipped to deal with this situation it would be the US. They have dropped the ball on this one im afraid.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

To a point sourbastard is right. But they do know when these storms are going to hit and their sizes and expected damage. Every night on the news there in hurricane season they update the current hurricanes off the coast and the directions they will hit and expected landfall date. So I dont believe they didnt have some time to organise relief efforts.

There was TV news for days before of people who were forewarned, clogging every possible highway to leave for safety, at the same time you could see rescue and emergency vehicles head towards the scene in preparation.

The fact some dozy Aussie tourists were too busy having a good time to watch the news or heed the warnings for days before is no fault of any Government US or Australian.

Personally I've had a gutful of every pothead and halfwit that expect our government and ultimately us as taxpayers to rescue them from the most idiotic of overseas misadventures.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Personally I've had a gutful of every pothead and halfwit that expect our government and ultimately us as taxpayers to rescue them from the most idiotic of overseas misadventures.

there'll be a tax for that next.
the Idiotic Tourist Rescue Tax :gren:

[NIGHTHAWK]

Just tune in to fox news That is all they talk about. The water is nearly all gone, the people are being asked kindly to leave their houses, some power is back on and some buissnesses are actually up and running, including a pub that never closed. The water however is a little toxic, lots of clorine being used.
The one interesting thing to come out of all of this is how some of the coloured people (i hope to god that i have got that right) are saying that it is a racial thing,now. Also that the looting was ok, food and water...things along that line i can understand, big screen tvs, dvd players stereos, guns etc etc no way.Oh well only in America.

[Casper]

Heres a quick note for everyone. This is a thread about the disaster occuring i the US right now. Many people have died, been seperated and lost all worldly possessions. In any country this would be considered a tragedy of epic proportions. So why is it that because it happens in the US people see the need to blame, misguide and generally hijack the thread with political and "anti-war" opinions??

I'll make this clear... as clear as possible.
Discuss the topic by all means BUT whoever starts in on a political debate regarding the US's leaders OR starts to discuss the Iraq war (which has NOTHING to do with this thread) will have their post deleted and be given 3 days to think about what they have done..

Clear enough? Good.

Personally I think the situation over there is horrible. It shows just how overwhelmingly devastating mother nature can be. I dont believe any country on earth would have handled this sort of destruction and can only hope that those who are lost will be found and those who have payed the ultimate price did not do so in vain.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

To a point sourbastard is right. But they do know when these storms are going to hit and their sizes and expected damage. Every night on the news there in hurricane season they update the current hurricanes off the coast and the directions they will hit and expected landfall date. So I dont believe they didnt have some time to organise relief efforts.

I think you overestimate the predictability of weather, by its very nature it runs to its own schedule. Hurricanes & cyclones because of their rotational pattern do not always "stay a course". Preparation for a category 5 storm is not something that can be organized in a week, especially while evacuating a city the size of New Orleans, its surrounding areas.

You can prepare for it in the long term, but as I said before, you cant know years before hand where your preparations will be required.

Food and medical supplies could have been stored in any number of cities in the vicinity. Flown there by any number of aircraft the US have at their disposal. Same could be said for thier wounded. Fly em out via chopper to those same cities to makeshift hospitals. Again, what do you think happens in war? They leave those wounded there to die cos its inconvenient to access the area? Sure the magnitude of the disaster is on a massive scale. But if any country in the world is equipped to deal with this situation it would be the US. They have dropped the ball on this one im afraid.

I think you will find alot of preparations were made in Texas, which is where alot of New Orleans refugees are now bivouacked. Air drop by chopper? I assume you mean supplying the people trapped in New Orleans? Do you have any idea how many choppers are required to supply 20,000 people with food, water and medicine on a daily basis? Airlifting 20,000 people is equally an impossible task to accomplish in a short period, and I seriously think you havent thought that through at all.

The US is large, and rich, but theres no magical bucket of helicopters and weather technology to deploy inside 10 minutes to fix up 2 states worth of victims and damage. Too many episodes of "Sky Captain"

[Black XR6]

Geez casper no need to become the gestapo. To go off topic you must actually deviate from the topic as started. The original poster who started the topic asked us what we had been hearing from the Hurricans and our thoughts. I dont see how anything we have said barring some war stuff that was already deleted could be seen as off topic. He asked us what we had heard and our thoughts. Thats what were all giving. I know thee has probably been a crackdown on thread hijacks and going off topic of late but this is hardly an instance of it.

Anyway, back to the topic.

Sourbastard mentioned I had underestimated the scope of the trajedy and how much should have been done. Well, the head of the "Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown has resigned in disgrace over the administration's slow response to the hurricane disaster." Article Here
So obviously im not the only one thinking that.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

Sourbastard mentioned I had underestimated the scope of the trajedy and how much should have been done. Well, the head of the "Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown has resigned in disgrace over the administration's slow response to the hurricane disaster." Article Here
So obviously im not the only one thinking that.

A political target for a natural disaster is hardly a first. And just because people think something based on blatantly wrong information spewed from the press, based on the concept of pumping up ratings, fueled on peoples anger and grief, doesnt make it factual.

CNN can tell me the sky is falling, but until I get hit in the head by a piece of sky blue plaster, im going to use my own mind to determine what is actually capable of happening.

[Black XR6]

A political target for a natural disaster is hardly a first. And just because people think something based on blatantly wrong information spewed from the press, based on the concept of pumping up ratings, fueled on peoples anger and grief, doesnt make it factual.

CNN can tell me the sky is falling, but until I get hit in the head by a piece of sky blue plaster, im going to use my own mind to determine what is actually capable of happening.

The US media, especially the big news stations like CNN and CNBC etc are very informed on what is happening in all areas of news. From my own personal experience I have seen them present both sides of any issue ive seen on the news whilst there and they struck me as a great news resource because of this. I dont think they base info on blatantly wrong information etc etc. They constantly have experts in the respective fields on their programs to present a view and explain the situations.

Of course you can make up your own mind!

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by Black XR6

I had underestimated the scope of the trajedy and how much should have been done. Well, the head of the "Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown has resigned in disgrace over the administration's slow response to the hurricane disaster." Article Here
So obviously im not the only one thinking that.

hell, as soon as i heard it was going to hit the mouth of the Missisippi river i knew it wasnt gonna be pretty at all.
but nature is nature and as far as im concerned no one can be held responsible for that. its a huge operation that is happening and things do take time.
9 months after the Tsunami hit and there are still hundreds of thousands of people homeless, even with the billions of dollars of aid. how is that any better?

[Black XR6]

Different situation. As I said. If anybody should have been prepared for an event of this scale it should be the US. During the Hurricane season the gulf coast gets hit all the time. There are always storms off the coast building up power to become hurricanes and as I said every day they update on which hurricanes are likely to be dangerous etc. Sure, they wont know one week away that a massive hurricane will hit, but they will have been watching the storm build power and they do know that the area is a traditional hurriane danger zone so why hasnt there been rescue efforts and contingencies planned for years in advance of something like this for that area. To say it is nature and is uncontrollable is true, but that dosnt mean it cant be planned for.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by 460cixy

is it just me or is ..............?

Yes its just you, others are able to express differing opinions without rudeness.

Cheap shot - duly noted !

[ImpulseTaco]

I shoulda posted this in my first post, but didn't think to.
My thoughts are as follows:

1. They KNEW it was coming, and it was going to be bad.
2. New Orleans is like a giant fishbowl waiting to get filled up.
3. They KNEW it was coming.
4. I read in the news paper about school busses that got flooded because they were parked. UNBELIEVEABLE. People should have been on those busses getting out.
5. The mayor is guilty as sin for not doing a damn thing to help. He can and moan, but when where the metal meets the meat, he didn't do a damn thing.
6. The governor is just as guilty as the mayor for not helping.
7. The FEDS are NOT at fault. It looks like they were ready to go before it happened, but the mayor/governor held them back.

In a nutshell thats what I think. The looting and stuff is, and as an American I am pained to say this, to be expected. Look at the L.A. riots. When disaster strikes poorer communities, the people go nuts.

Things like this also cause many of us to attempt to be prepared. Have things stashed away and ready in case of a SHTF scenario like this happens.

[Black XR6]

There will be the usual investigation to find out how it could have been dealt with differently and as usual most of the recommendations will not be adopted.

As I said earlier, they know these things are coming and somebody has dropped the ball on the preparation for it. I think even though over 500 have died so far from it and no doubt that number will rise. But considering the number of people who evacuated prior to the hurricane that number could have been far, far worse.

[Tote]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

Mitchay You live in Canberra, You've driven by DFAT, now take a look at the people you see, and ask yourself, would you let them near a flooded river if you didn't have the time or manpower to get them back out? :hihi:

I might drive them to the river and then go have a beer with the manpower )))
Regards,
Tote

[RED_EL_XR8]

As you can see Impulse Tacho we have loudmouths, yobs and troublemakers here in Australia too.

Some of them get particularly upset when a cool of ban become a life sentence.

Thanks for the States-side perspective on the hurricane damage.

[ImpulseTaco]

Loudmouths and whatnot are fine by me as long as they have reasons to back up what they're saying. I'm interested in you guys' take on things, and even the annoying ones have opinions. They have to back them up though.