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Old 17-10-2020, 09:46 AM   #31
jpd80
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Originally Posted by CyberWasp View Post
I am guessing that the biggest problem is that it is only our market that would want a V8 Raptor - (Other than the USA) and no other countries would want it.

That said, I am assuming we will see some kind of V6 Petrol Ecoboost model which is probably just as unappealing to other countries as the V8 would have been.

So why not just put the V8 in and be done with it.
Sometimes I think that Ford looks too deep at all the buyers that wouldn't buy a V8 Ranger
instead of the ones that would and how much they would be prepared to pay.
Look at RHD Mustang and Ford's original sales estimates were way off, they had no idea
how big the response would be, that's repeated with Bronco in the US where the reaction
has been massive but under Mulally, Bronco was a banned subject, an unnecessary vehicle.
Amazing what happens with a leadership change.....


I suspect that the real reason Ford pulled out of the V8 Ranger was because of the way it was viewed,
a small boutique product for us instead of a V8 eng module to be shared across Bronco-Ranger-Everest,
how many times does Ford fake knowing what customers want when it never really researches the subject
properly beyond contrived research to validate the vehicle it wants to build.

I would laugh myself silly if Ford US came asking for a V8 engine module and marketing says we thought
there was no business case.......Zzzzzzzzz, out goes the fishing line.....

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Old 17-10-2020, 11:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

Ford seem to be happy now building anonymous vehicles that no one wants because everyone else either does it better or does it cheaper.
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Old 17-10-2020, 01:09 PM   #33
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

Just thinking out aloud:

Could a V8 Ranger Raptor be successful in Australia at $90K driveaway and is this price point achievable considering the US would be a bigger market if made available and hence allow for a bigger spread on ROI? Would Ford US build a product like this when it has a F-150 Raptor?

Would a 3.0V6 Ecoboost/Hybrid Ranger Raptor @$85K driveaway sell better than the current Ranger Raptor.

Would a 3.0L V6 tdi Ranger with say 190kw/600Nm sell well @ $75+K considering a top spec Amarok Ultimate TDI580 is $85K driveaway but lacks safety tech?
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Old 17-10-2020, 04:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

In the next couple of years, Amarok will become a made in Sth Africa Ranger under the skin.
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Old 17-10-2020, 04:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Just thinking out aloud:

Could a V8 Ranger Raptor be successful in Australia at $90K driveaway and is this price point achievable considering the US would be a bigger market if made available and hence allow for a bigger spread on ROI? Would Ford US build a product like this when it has a F-150 Raptor?

Would a 3.0V6 Ecoboost/Hybrid Ranger Raptor @$85K driveaway sell better than the current Ranger Raptor.

Would a 3.0L V6 tdi Ranger with say 190kw/600Nm sell well @ $75+K considering a top spec Amarok Ultimate TDI580 is $85K driveaway but lacks safety tech?
Should just go electric or hybrid. Stupid slow as sin turbo diesels. Can't beat that torque and there is little chance of a V8 now.
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Old 17-10-2020, 07:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

The other thing is that in our market a lot of the Dual Cabs are bought via Companies and or through what ever way they claim them as a tax deduction hence why the sales of them are sky high.

I don't really understand why the USA has a different Ranger to the rest of the world.
The whole Ranger, Everest, Bronco thing seems like they are doing everything twice even though some of it is shared.

Bean Counters at Ford will say that a EcoBoost V6 has similar power to a V8, is lighter, handles better and probably uses less fuel but they will never learn. Did it work well for them with the F150 Raptor?

Car makers always charge a premium for a diesel engine over a petrol one so a V8 could be sold at the same price as a V6 Turbo Diesel if made on the production line and they would still make good coin.
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Old 17-10-2020, 08:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Bean Counters at Ford will say that a EcoBoost V6 has similar power to a V8, is lighter, handles better and probably uses less fuel but they will never learn. Did it work well for them with the F150 Raptor?
The 3.5 ecoboost has done really well outselling the V8 comfortably
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Old 17-10-2020, 09:04 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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The 3.5 ecoboost has done really well outselling the V8 comfortably
Also see below.
"The 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 cranks out 375 horsepower and 470 pound-feet of torque, while the High Output 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 (used in the F-150 Raptor model) pumps out 450 hp and 510 lb-ft of torque. The traditional 5.0-liter Ti-VCT V8 (which Ford calls the Coyote) churns out 395 hp and 400 pound-feet of torque. The EcoBoost 3.5-liter stomps the 5.0-liter with higher levels of torque."
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Old 17-10-2020, 09:48 PM   #39
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

Whether it’s a V8, V6 TT or TD V6 hopefully it’s available from XLT upwards.
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Old 17-10-2020, 10:54 PM   #40
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

..and then Dodge released the TRX with 702 horsepower and 650 pound-feet of torque.
Will Ford respond to that with a V6?

It is a never ending cycle. You can make a 6 Cylinder outperform a V8, and you can also apply the technology you put into the V6, into the V8, to put the V8 on top again.

The one thing they can't put into the V6 is the exhaust sound which is why the V8 will always be more popular.
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Old 18-10-2020, 07:54 AM   #41
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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..and then Dodge released the TRX with 702 horsepower and 650 pound-feet of torque.
Will Ford respond to that with a V6?

It is a never ending cycle. You can make a 6 Cylinder outperform a V8, and you can also apply the technology you put into the V6, into the V8, to put the V8 on top again.

The one thing they can't put into the V6 is the exhaust sound which is why the V8 will always be more popular.
But the V8 is not more popular. In the F150, the V6 is killing the V8. People have moved on from the V8 and prefer an engine that can get the job done using less fuel.

V8's are a waste of investment for what is really a niche market these days.

The coyote doesn't have a lot of grunt down low and isn't great in a truck. If you've driven a Mustang you know how flat the engine feels down low. It's why Ford built the 7.3 litre Super Duty motor but it's again, not a massive market for that engine.
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Old 18-10-2020, 08:16 AM   #42
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

Well the Coyote doesnít have the capability for a Class 2B or Class 3. The truck would have to be de-rated on towing, even though the chassis can handle more. So it doesnít make sense to offer the F250 and above with the 5.0 or 3.5TT. Capability is the GCWR rating of an engine, which they donít publish. Which goes beyond the peak power and torque output.

The non Raptor 3.5 has just been bumped to 300kw/680Nm. The hybrid version puts out 320kw/772Nm.

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Old 18-10-2020, 08:17 AM   #43
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Old 18-10-2020, 08:46 AM   #44
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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But the V8 is not more popular. In the F150, the V6 is killing the V8. People have moved on from the V8 and prefer an engine that can get the job done using less fuel.

V8's are a waste of investment for what is really a niche market these days.

The coyote doesn't have a lot of grunt down low and isn't great in a truck. If you've driven a Mustang you know how flat the engine feels down low. It's why Ford built the 7.3 litre Super Duty motor but it's again, not a massive market for that engine.
Where the V8 shines in F150 is when owners start towing, a larger capacity engine tends to
run leaner mixtures when towing compared to Ecoboost V6 engines that go rich on part boost,
The majority of GM and FCA 1500 class trucks sold are V8 powered with cylinder deactivation.
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Old 18-10-2020, 10:27 AM   #45
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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But the V8 is not more popular. In the F150, the V6 is killing the V8. People have moved on from the V8 and prefer an engine that can get the job done using less fuel.

V8's are a waste of investment for what is really a niche market these days.

The coyote doesn't have a lot of grunt down low and isn't great in a truck. If you've driven a Mustang you know how flat the engine feels down low. It's why Ford built the 7.3 litre Super Duty motor but it's again, not a massive market for that engine.
I don't think its any surprise for the 3.5 TTV6 to be more popular than the 5.0. That engine ultimately replaced the 6.2 in F150 Raptor after all. I would be curious to see what sort of uptake the 6.2 would have if it wasn't restricted to Super Duty.
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Old 18-10-2020, 03:27 PM   #46
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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I don't think its any surprise for the 3.5 TTV6 to be more popular than the 5.0. That engine ultimately replaced the 6.2 in F150 Raptor after all. I would be curious to see what sort of uptake the 6.2 would have if it wasn't restricted to Super Duty.
The 6.2 is going away in the next year, being replaced by the 7.3 in lower power level. The 6.2 was removed
from F150 option because fuel economy was dreadful and could exceed 18 mpg in 2WD, Ford's inability
to develop a working cylinder deactivation system was a major draw back in pickups subject to CAFE
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Old 18-10-2020, 08:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Whether itís a V8, V6 TT or TD V6 hopefully itís available from XLT upwards.
Gotta be a V6 as a minimum. I don't care how good the 4 cylinder is, if I were to buy a Raptor I want it to have a bigger engine than a Navara.
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Old 19-10-2020, 02:18 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Originally Posted by CyberWasp View Post
..and then Dodge released the TRX with 702 horsepower and 650 pound-feet of torque.
Will Ford respond to that with a V6?

It is a never ending cycle. You can make a 6 Cylinder outperform a V8, and you can also apply the technology you put into the V6, into the V8, to put the V8 on top again.

The one thing they can't put into the V6 is the exhaust sound which is why the V8 will always be more popular.
The next F150 Raptor is getting the GT500 motor. But I believe it will be a 2 tiered line-up, with V6 Ecoboost entry and supercharged 5.2 as the top of the line model.
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Old 20-10-2020, 07:23 AM   #49
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

Ranger is consistently top selling 4x4 in our market even with mostly 2.0 diesel sales,
most buyers are OK with that engine but would probably prefer a bigger 3.0 V6 diesel
for increased performance while maintaining good fuel economy.

Would Ranger Raptor buyers in our market choose a V6 diesel over an Ecoboost V6?
The important part is what most of them would prefer, not what non-buyers would "like to see".
Remembering that the best fuel economy you'll get out of an EB V6 will be roughly 10 litres/100km.
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Old 20-10-2020, 07:59 AM   #50
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

F150 Raptors 2010 to 2014 have gone up in price for second hand , demand is high.. seems alot are going back to V8 Powered Raptors over the Ecoboost ... food for thought.
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Old 20-10-2020, 08:47 AM   #51
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Ranger is consistently top selling 4x4 in our market even with mostly 2.0 diesel sales,
most buyers are OK with that engine but would probably prefer a bigger 3.0 V6 diesel
for increased performance while maintaining good fuel economy.

Would Ranger Raptor buyers in our market choose a V6 diesel over an Ecoboost V6?
The important part is what most of them would prefer, not what non-buyers would "like to see".
Remembering that the best fuel economy you'll get out of an EB V6 will be roughly 10 litres/100km.
Give me the EB V6 any day over the diesel. I would be over the moon with 10L/100. I don't get that with my 3.2 Ranger.
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Old 20-10-2020, 09:24 AM   #52
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Give me the EB V6 any day over the diesel. I would be over the moon with 10L/100. I don't get that with my 3.2 Ranger.
Here, here... It's only the diesel that is holding me back otherwise I would have had a Ranger parked in my stable.

Will Ford Australia ever wake up and realise that there are buyers out there that still want petrol, How about just an option for *#@ sake Ford Australia.
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Old 20-10-2020, 09:27 AM   #53
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Here, here... It's only the diesel that is holding me back otherwise I would have had a Ranger parked in my stable.

Will Ford Australia ever wake up and realise that there are buyers out there that still want petrol, How about just an option for *#@ sake Ford Australia.
"Computer Says NO "
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Old 20-10-2020, 10:22 AM   #54
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

Maybe Ford will realise that all those buyers who bought Falcon and Commodore utes didn't buy lower powered diesel utes from the opposition for a reason and when you look at all those XR6T/XR8 ute and SS ute buyers they don't have anything to update to.

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Old 20-10-2020, 11:41 AM   #55
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

I test drove the 3.5 Ecoboost and the V8 when looking at the F150.

Both great engines. Seat of Pants meter told me to go for the V8. Less complicated. Tows exceptionally well. I think resale on the 8 will be better.

Sounds amazing under load when towing. (the wife even commented that "it sounds like its not struggling like the landcruiser used to") (200 series TTD v8).

Few of the online reviews i read all agree the ecoboost on paper should tow better than the 8, but most say get the 8 for towing....I don't think there is a lot in it.

The Ecoboost models tend to sit longer online for sale in AUS while v8's tend to go quite quickly. I ordered mine new, could not find a v8 in stock. Heaps of ecoboost 6's around.

A raptor with the 8 would be great!!
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Old 20-10-2020, 11:52 AM   #56
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Here, here... It's only the diesel that is holding me back otherwise I would have had a Ranger parked in my stable.

Will Ford Australia ever wake up and realise that there are buyers out there that still want petrol, How about just an option for *#@ sake Ford Australia.
umm, PX was launched with a 2.5 petrol in Australia and it tanked which is why no other petrol has ever been sold here.
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Old 20-10-2020, 02:08 PM   #57
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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umm, PX was launched with a 2.5 petrol in Australia and it tanked which is why no other petrol has ever been sold here.
It tanked because it was only available in the base model 4x2 and it only had similar power to the 2.2L diesel and almost half the torque. Of course its not going to do well.

If they stuck the 2.7L Ecoboost in we are talking twice the power than the 2.5 and over 300Nm more.

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Old 20-10-2020, 02:12 PM   #58
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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Give me the EB V6 any day over the diesel. I would be over the moon with 10L/100. I don't get that with my 3.2 Ranger.
That figure would be the absolute best you could expect on light cruise.
If youíre getting worse than that with your 3.2 diesel, I can almost
guarantee that the Ecoboost will be much thirstier.
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Old 20-10-2020, 02:22 PM   #59
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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That figure would be the absolute best you could expect on light cruise.

If youíre getting worse than that with your 3.2 diesel, I can almost

guarantee that the Ecoboost will be much thirstier.
Our 3.2 Everest used way more than 11/100 on average.

I don't mind the fuel penalty for performance. What I hate is heavy fuel use for no performance gain
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Old 20-10-2020, 02:23 PM   #60
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Default Re: Ranger Raptor filmed testing in the US

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That figure would be the absolute best you could expect on light cruise.
If youíre getting worse than that with your 3.2 diesel, I can almost
guarantee that the Ecoboost will be much thirstier.
To be honest, I wouldn't really care. Fuel economy is not my main purchasing criteria.
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