Ford chief says future product will disprove Holden promise to ‘out-engineer'

imugli · 12-08-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Ford chief says future product will disprove Holden promise to ‘out-engineer'

By JAMES STANFORD 11 August 2009

FORD Australia president Marin Burela said he was ‘delighted’ to hear claims his company would be out-engineered by Holden.

Mr Burela was responding to the comment made by GM Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss at last week’s announcement of new locally produced direct-injection V6 engines.

The announcement came a week after Ford Australia revealed a plan to fit a four-cylinder Ecoboost turbo four-cylinder engine to the Falcon from 2011.

Mr Reuss, having already pointed out that Holden was introducing new technology now and not in two years time, took aim at Ford with his response to a question asking if Holden would consider a four-cylinder engine.

“We are going work on executing high quality today and further fuel efficiency and efficiency on this vehicle,” he said. “We are going to out-engineer the competition, and dropping cylinders would be the last resort because people still like the power, the performance, the towing, all of those things that we get in Australia with this engine and this car.”

Left: Holden's Spark Ignition Direct Injection (SIDI) V6 Commodore. Below: Ford's EcoBoost branding.

Last week, Mr Burela volunteered his own response to the verbal jab in a monthly sales media briefing.

“When I hear statements like ‘we will out-engineer our competitors’, all that does is bring a huge level of delight to us because I know what we are working on,” he said.

Mr Burela said the company would continue to improve the efficiency of Ford’s in-line six-cylinder Falcon engine which now has an official fuel consumption rating of 9.9L per 100km when selected with the six-speed automatic transmission that is standard on some models and available for an additional $2000 others.

“If anyone, particularly my colleagues at Holden think that we are done with where we are then they have sadly miscalculated,” he said.

Holden released a document at the announcement of the introduction of its direct-injection V6 engines showing a graph representing the consumption of the Commodore and its rivals.

It showed the 3.0-litre V6 commodore at 9.3L/100km as the most efficient, below a Ford Mondeo with 9.5L/100km, a Toyota Aurion on 9.9L/100km, a Honda CR-V with 10L/100km and the Ford Falcon XT to the far right of the page with 10.5L/100km.

Holden chose to pick the standard XT Falcon with five-speed automatic for comparison rather than with the optional six-speed automatic.

It also decided not to include the Commodore 3.6-litre V6 which uses between 9.9L/100km and 10.3L/100km. When asked about the Holden graph and whether Ford was worried people would think it had fallen behind with its fuel consumption, Mr Burela said: “It is like all things – perceptions become realities in people’s minds, so it is our job to ensure that our product actions and our communications are clear and people understand the choices which they have.

“There are many different ways for us to go out there and demonstrate and improve our fuel economy and we are working on a range of other initiatives. I feel very confident that what we are doing will be understood.”

I just want to say I officially love this man

: Almost as much as I love the idea that the for-all-intents-and-purposes bankrupt home of the Mini-me Sebring and a host of Korean PoS can say that they'll out engineer the competition. With what? Did someone make Monopoly money legal tender???

**Polyal** · 12-08-2009, 06:59 PM

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Originally Posted by imugli

I just want to say I officially love this man

: Almost as much as I love the idea that the for-all-intents-and-purposes bankrupt home of the Mini-me Sebring and a host of Korean PoS can say that they'll out engineer the competition. With what? Did someone make Monopoly money legal tender???

I agree, makes you want to go down to HQ and shake the mans hand.

Mr X · 12-08-2009, 08:30 PM

What a gutless POS that V6 is 3.6 litre form.Will a VE get out of its own way with a 3 litre version?I suspect you'd have to row it pretty hard to keep up with the flow-bye bye fuel economy.

I6DOHC · 12-08-2009, 08:39 PM

At least you know he has a real plan for the Falcon and considering all the options. Can only hope the RWD format remains & they can find a way to shift more I6's to keep it viable past 2014/15.

ivorya · 12-08-2009, 08:57 PM

Where's (JEM)???????????

What's in the pipeline man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XR6_190 · 12-08-2009, 09:02 PM

God he's good, really reminds me of good old Geoff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I6DOHC

At least you know he has a real plan for the Falcon and considering all the options. Can only hope the RWD format remains & they can find a way to shift more I6's to keep it viable past 2014/15.

RWD is all but confirmed for post 2015, so i don't think we have to worry about that.

Ohio XB · 12-08-2009, 09:26 PM

This guy is really cool. Sounds like you've got a keeper. I hope he stays in that position for quite a while.

Steve

sarrge2001 · 12-08-2009, 10:49 PM

Not afraid of a fight either, apparently.....

JPFS1 · 12-08-2009, 10:50 PM

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Originally Posted by ivorya

Where's (JEM)???????????

What's in the pipeline man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sounds familiar....

Paxton · 12-08-2009, 11:30 PM

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Originally Posted by ivorya

Where's (JEM)???????????

What's in the pipeline man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JEM is no more.

Don't go looking either. Ford found and silenced him a wile back.

Swordsman88 · 13-08-2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

JEM is no more.

Don't go looking either. Ford found and silenced him a wile back.

Too bad for us hey.....

Either way great to hear these comments from Burela. Holden, who in recent days it has been revealed are just as bankrupt as we all expected, are trying to play the bullish PR game. All show, no go. Put on a big show to convince everyone they are 'economical', 'advanced', 'viable' etc. etc.

All well and good but facts are the new DI 3.6 is really no better than 4.0 I6 ford has now (or probaly much better than an aurion, maxima or any other large car) regarding fuel efficency or grunt. And the 3.0, based on US reports and its frankly inadequate torque value is not really a large car engine at all. A medium car at best. The I4t from ford will murder this thing, pure and simple.

Holden at best can get some more private traffice in the short term but given the '4 cylinder only' mantra from fleets will have to work hard to secure more large orders. All while Cruze bleads them dry RE product development with very little profit per car (as admitted by reuss).

Try reading the transcript of mark reuss' statements, the guy bumbles and mumbles alot of half truths and pr-tested soundbites. Very little makes much sense and if often hardly coherent. Burela tells it as it is, for good or bad.

Holden best make some hay while the sun shines, because all too soon, as usual, Ford and others will show how ludicrous this 'out engineer' statement truly is. Those of us who have followed the aussie car business for long enough know how silly that sort of statement is, particularly from holden.

ED Classic · 13-08-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

JEM is no more.

Don't go looking either. Ford found and silenced him a wile back.

Fair Dinkum lucky they didnt take some sort of legal action

Paxton · 13-08-2009, 12:11 AM

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Originally Posted by ED Classic

Fair Dinkum lucky they didnt take some sort of legal action

This was a little Tongue in Cheek. JEM is alive and posting, but you won't find anything that leads you to him.

Joe5619 · 13-08-2009, 09:21 AM

What do they have planned that we dont know about I ask??

z80 · 13-08-2009, 09:31 AM

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Originally Posted by XR6_190

RWD is all but confirmed for post 2015, so i don't think we have to worry about that.

I wouldn't be too confident about that.

There are ocassional snippets of info that come out that convince me that it is only a temporary production model that doesn't fit in with Ford's global product lineup.

Spaniard · 13-08-2009, 09:47 AM

Another worthless PR stunt by Holden to cover the fact that they are going downhill, product- and finance-wise. Ford are on too much of a good thing with their new I4 engine which Holden are clearly dismissing as gutless. Unless they come up with a way to counter Ford's future engine(s), I believe Holden will be trimming it's product lineup in order to cut down on costs to compete properly.

The Snout · 13-08-2009, 09:49 AM

Holden may want to start with it's electrics on it's VE if it wants to out engineer anyone.

KW XRT · 13-08-2009, 10:53 AM

holden probably think they out engineered ford by glueing the firewall in place on ve.Can't wait to see what sort of glue they are going to use to out engineer fords engine torque.lol

**El Venom** · 13-08-2009, 10:53 AM

"Out engineer" funny as. Christ was there anything in the VE thats was a new and different from older cars? Its all well and good saying they will out engineer the competion but where is there proof. Of course making the capacity of a motor will improve fuel economy, but with all the claim how good they are I ould have like to see an engine that had the lowest fuel usage but with some decent power and touque figures. Do they seriously think this car will move on the road let alone off the show room floors.

At least Ford are looking at in as an entire package (smaller motor but with good torque and power) the current 4.0L as it has been stated uses more fuel but when you look at the size of the engine, power and torque ratings why would somene logically limit what the car is going to be capable of doing by buy a gutless motor that I believe in reality inst really going to provide any actual real savings in the long run.

Why dont Holden just concentrate on making there billion dollar baby actually work correctly and make it a joy to drive before tyring different motors. I would start with brakes, tranmission and interior. Clearly transmisson help as proved by Ford so why dont they do that. It seems like Holden are more interested in pumping money in to there marketing department to come up with as much BS as possible to try get uninformed people to by there inferiour product

mik · 13-08-2009, 12:00 PM

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Originally Posted by KW XRT

holden probably think they out engineered ford by glueing the firewall in place on ve.Can't wait to see what sort of glue they are going to use to out engineer fords engine torque.lol

how cheap can you be.......my brother mentioned this to me after seeing a ve burning on the side of the road a while ago , engine bay was burning and flames had gotten into the cabin, i can`t help thinking would the glue once cooking allow the fire into the cab faster than a the spot welded firewall, would the glue itself catch once once exposed to flames? i guess the flames would have gotten in there regardless eventually, but i can see car tool kits in the future.... a wheel brace and a bottle of clag lol.

Road_Warrior · 13-08-2009, 12:22 PM

I thought they'd been gluing the firewall in there since the VR days??

Paxton · 13-08-2009, 02:22 PM

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Originally Posted by z80

I wouldn't be too confident about that.

There are ocassional snippets of info that come out that convince me that it is only a temporary production model that doesn't fit in with Ford's global product lineup.

Yet I have heard the opposite, and I know who to listen to.

Even the insiders keep proving you wrong, yet you still believe your sources.

Falcon will remain RWD through E8, and most likely become the base of any Global Rear Wheel Drive platform into the Future. If only the nay sayers knew what both Kuzak and Mullally had to say about Falcon when they drove it locally last year.

Joe5619 · 13-08-2009, 02:59 PM

dumb question Paxton, what is "E8"?

yanknbank · 13-08-2009, 03:04 PM

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If only the nay sayers knew what both Kuzak and Mullally had to say about Falcon when they drove it locally last year

....and what did they have to say about it?

Paxton · 13-08-2009, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Joe5619

dumb question Paxton, what is "E8"?

Sorry. E8 is the Code name for FG's platform.

Paxton · 13-08-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

dumb question Paxton, what is "E8"?

Sorry. E8 is the Code name for FG's platform.

Yanknbank -

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According to my sources out Lara, Kuzak's exact words were:

"This is the best car in the world. Bar none."

R-Design · 13-08-2009, 03:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Paxton

Falcon will remain RWD through E8, and most likely become the base of any Global Rear Wheel Drive platform into the Future. If only the nay sayers knew what both Kuzak and Mullally had to say about Falcon when they drove it locally last year.

If this is the case, why is Ford so non committal when discussing falcon’s future?

I can’t remember any other manufacturer speculating on its model range the way Ford do with Falcon. Surely continuity would help sales long term as opposed to uncertainty or talk of possible discontinuation.

**FTE217** · 13-08-2009, 04:15 PM

This is typical of Ford to keep quiet Boss315 which is good and bad........

As for the "best car in the world" quote well thats big but I suppose comparing apples with apples the FG is miles ahead from any POS US equivelant thats for sure......

Look forward to the engineering stoush !

mr smith · 13-08-2009, 06:07 PM

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Originally Posted by The Snout

Holden may want to start with it's electrics on it's VE if it wants to out engineer anyone.

And build quality and refinement and...............

After spending some time in a VE Calais and a G6E only a fool would pick the Calais.

GT69 · 13-08-2009, 07:04 PM

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Originally Posted by mr smith

And build quality and refinement and...............

After spending some time in a VE Calais and a G6E only a fool would pick the Calais.

Lucky there's about 3600 fools per month for Holden then hey