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Old 03-12-2019, 02:17 PM   #1
Fiji
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Default Rent vs buy

Who is financially better off the renter or the home owner.

I read the article below and I'm leaning towards the home owner

https://www.realestate.com.au/news/a...ends-continue/

To me renters seem to spend all their money as soon as it comes to hand where home owners plan, anticipate and influence their financial decisions to accumulate wealth.

I think home ownership is within reach of all, just have to make a few sacrifices ?

Or do we think the property market will crash and renters are in a better spot as they won't lose anything?
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by Fiji View Post
To me renters seem to spend all their money as soon as it comes to hand where home owners plan, anticipate and influence their financial decisions to accumulate wealth.
Umm yeah nah, that's a wild generalisation.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Forget the finance side of rent v buy..
When you are paying off or own your own home, you are the boss.
When you are renting, the owner is the boss. He/she decides what you pay, and whether you stay.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

We rent, purely because we like to go overseas and around Australia as much as we can. Weíd rather do it now when weíre young than wait till weĒre saddled with kids and older and a mortgage.

Some people donít agree with our choice, makes no real difference to us, when weíre in our 60ís still paying off our mortgage at least weíll have a lifetime of memories to take our minds off it haha.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by lra View Post
Forget the finance side of rent v buy..
When you are paying off or own your own home, youHe/she decides what you pay, and whether you stay.
What about strata title?
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Apartment appeals to me - aside from the ridiculous costs that come with being in a building with elevators, or when the ****s don't build it properly and then no insurance company will insure it, then you can't live in the ****er - ala Sydney.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Apartment appeals to me - aside from the ridiculous costs that come with being in a building with elevators, or when the ****s don't build it properly and then no insurance company will insure it, then you can't live in the ****er - ala Sydney.
Don't Buy a New One..

Get a 8-10 yr old One. If It's gunna fall base over Apex (or any faults show up).!!. It would've happened by then...
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by Fiji View Post
Or do we think the property market will crash and renters are in a better spot as they won't lose anything?
Why would the property market crash?? People will always need homes and demand is increasing.

If it does crash I still have my home, so I have lost nothing.
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Everyone needs to buy so you can sell it to live when the gov eliminates pensions and steals your super
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Well I am very proud to say at 49 years old, my wife and I just settled on our first home Monday 02/12/2012 WE ARE NOW HOME OWNERS!!!!!!!

Its been a long time coming, but yes, we got into trouble (not unmanageable debt), but was making our life hard about 5-7 years ago. We have been using "my Budget" for around 4.5 years now. Planning a budget really has been the key.

Up until 60 days prior to settlement we were in fact 100% debt free and made good inroads on savings.

We are still in a lease with our current rental until Feb, but we are 1.5 months ahead in rent so we just have 1 month which will be mortgage and rent, but we have factored this into our budget.

I am so damned proud of ourselves and of course our home.

The other downside to renting:
Even if you are a great tenant like we have been, always ahead in rent, clean and tidy people. You are at the whim of the landlord.

We had a place we were very happy in for over 7 years, it was a private rental and our landlords had it a an investment for their retirement. (they husband and wife) split up and had to sell the assets....we had to suddenly find somewhere else when we had no plans of moving.... Moving in itself is expensive, its all good and well to say you will get a bond back if your a good tenant like us, but the issue is, before you get it back, you need to have paid another bond on your new rental, plus all the expenses like moving services (internet, phone, Foxtel etc) most of those have a change of address fee. The cost of hiring a truck or movers etc etc etc....its all very hard to come up with this if its unexpected....

Now we own, if we do ever decide to sell, we can plan for it, but certainly not within our plans anytime soon as we both HATE moving.

Signed: Happy first home owner
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

The problem my daughter had was that to buy she had to have a savings history.She found it very hard to save very much as a single parent when paying over $400 wk rent.She could not get through to the lenders,that if she was capable of paying rent she was equally as capable of paying a similiar mortgage.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

What kills me is knowing people who own properties empty for decades.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaw View Post
Well I am very proud to say at 49 years old, my wife and I just settled on our first home Monday 02/12/2012 WE ARE NOW HOME OWNERS!!!!!!!

Its been a long time coming, but yes, we got into trouble (not unmanageable debt), but was making our life hard about 5-7 years ago. We have been using "my Budget" for around 4.5 years now. Planning a budget really has been the key.

Up until 60 days prior to settlement we were in fact 100% debt free and made good inroads on savings.

We are still in a lease with our current rental until Feb, but we are 1.5 months ahead in rent so we just have 1 month which will be mortgage and rent, but we have factored this into our budget.

I am so damned proud of ourselves and of course our home.

The other downside to renting:
Even if you are a great tenant like we have been, always ahead in rent, clean and tidy people. You are at the whim of the landlord.

We had a place we were very happy in for over 7 years, it was a private rental and our landlords had it a an investment for their retirement. (they husband and wife) split up and had to sell the assets....we had to suddenly find somewhere else when we had no plans of moving.... Moving in itself is expensive, its all good and well to say you will get a bond back if your a good tenant like us, but the issue is, before you get it back, you need to have paid another bond on your new rental, plus all the expenses like moving services (internet, phone, Foxtel etc) most of those have a change of address fee. The cost of hiring a truck or movers etc etc etc....its all very hard to come up with this if its unexpected....

Now we own, if we do ever decide to sell, we can plan for it, but certainly not within our plans anytime soon as we both HATE moving.

Signed: Happy first home owner
A sincere congratulations. It's all yours so make it your own.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe View Post
Why would the property market crash?? People will always need homes and demand is increasing.

If it does crash I still have my home, so I have lost nothing.
There's always doom Sayers talking of Property market crashes, as you say for this to happen we would need to be in oversupply. highly unlikely on average.

though there are niche areas where house prices have dropped, mostly on the high end market, where IMO people have paid too much in the first place.


'If' it does crash yes you still have your home, but you could be paying for a mortgage of higher value than the home.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Congratulations YAW. A question for you. How do you get a thirty year home loan at age 49? Do the banks not take into account that you will retire at some point?
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:29 AM   #16
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Congratulations YAW. A question for you. How do you get a thirty year home loan at age 49? Do the banks not take into account that you will retire at some point?
They most certainly would, You can get shorter terms
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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... How do you get a thirty year home loan at age 49? Do the banks not take into account that you will retire at some point?
Banks doing due diligence

That's hilarious

It's not their risk - it's the loan recipients.








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Old 04-12-2019, 12:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Firstly a big congratulations Yaw!

Quickly when you move I'd suggest taking a week off work and embrace the experience? When I moved into my own house I took 2 days off plus a weekend.. Was a bit rushed and didn't get to take it in and enjoy it for what it was.

I bought my first house this year when I was 31.. It's funny how much of a tightass I've become sort of since, I wanted to buy a new car earlier in the year and though nope I want the house.. Once I got the house I went and test drove a car was about to sign the line and though nahh I own a house now so why get myself a 26k over 6 year car loan when the trusty old BF Fairmont Ghia done the exact same thing and will end up being a wheel barrow while doing rennos and doesnt matter as much if it coped a battle scar.

For me personally I've noticed since buying a house my interests have changed quite alot, I dont care for my project car (417rwkw BA fairlane, might even part it out or sell it?) I seem to be addicted to bunnings trips most weekends, even twice some weekends! but I also now stress out alot more as to what would happen if I lost my job; even tho I have unemployment sickness and death insurance on my loan.

Best part for me about buying my house.. I have cats now I couldn't get my kittens when I was renting

Also, what I like is I have a 3 bedroom home, with a rumpus room, 2 car shed, 2 car carport and a nice size yard, and my mortgage is $1 a week more than my rent was!
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Depends at what stage in the property cycle you buy. Let's say you bought an average priced property for $900,000 in Sydney in 2016 borrowing 80% of its value at around 3.5% p.a interest only. Over the last 4 years

Interest cost $900,000 x 0.8 x 3.5% x 4 = $100,800
Rates $6,000
Insurance $4,000
NSW Stamp Duty: $36,370

Total Cost to Buy: $147,170 over 4 yrs

To rent the place would cost say $700 a week.

So $700 x 52 x 4 =

Total Cost to Rent: $145,600 over 4 yrs


Cost between the two is prety much line ball but to buy you have to have $180,000 plus the stamp duty saved. All you need up front to rent is 4 weeks rent plus 4 weeks bond , $5,600.

If you buy then later on decide to sell the place to buy another one in the same market, changes in value are irrelevant .

Benefits of Buying

ē Its yours and you have the security of knowing you're not at the mercy of a landlord who can give you notice to vacate out of your control.
ē The house will "generally" go up in value so you can sell it for more than you paid
ē You have a foot in the door and have some insulation against prices going up. Deciding to buy later may mean you're priced out of the market.

Benefits of Renting

ē You can generally rent in a high end suburb you like because it's often too expensive to buy in it
ē You can vacate at short notice and don't have to go through the hassle of selling
ē You're not exposed in a declining property market
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

I think buying is within reach of everyone, just not with harbour views.

But I'd rather own a home in Goulburn than rent in middle of Sydney.

It just takes some sacrifices doesn't it
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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I think buying is within reach of everyone, just not with harbour views.

But I'd rather own a home in Goulburn than rent in middle of Sydney.

It just takes some sacrifices doesn't it
So, what's the point of this thread please?
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Apartment appeals to me - aside from the ridiculous costs that come with being in a building with elevators, or when the ****s don't build it properly and then no insurance company will insure it, then you can't live in the ****er - ala Sydney.
Franco, my ol man pays more in body corporate fees (14K annually) than I ever did paying rent per year.
What he pays I could live on a yacht in a nice marina, fee water, electric wifi for less and still afford to take the motorhome up and down the Eastcoast.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by GT0132 View Post
Depends at what stage in the property cycle you buy. Let's say you bought an average priced property for $900,000 in Sydney in 2016 borrowing 80% of its value at around 3.5% p.a interest only. Over the last 4 years

Interest cost $900,000 x 0.8 x 3.5% x 4 = $100,800
Rates $6,000
Insurance $4,000
NSW Stamp Duty: $36,370

Total Cost to Buy: $147,170 over 4 yrs

To rent the place would cost say $700 a week.

So $700 x 52 x 4 =

Total Cost to Rent: $145,600 over 4 yrs


Cost between the two is prety much line ball but to buy you have to have $180,000 plus the stamp duty saved. All you need up front to rent is 4 weeks rent plus 4 weeks bond , $5,600.

If you buy then later on decide to sell the place to buy another one in the same market, changes in value are irrelevant .

Benefits of Buying

• Its yours and you have the security of knowing you're not at the mercy of a landlord who can give you notice to vacate out of your control.
• The house will "generally" go up in value so you can sell it for more than you paid
• You have a foot in the door and have some insulation against prices going up. Deciding to buy later may mean you're priced out of the market.

Benefits of Renting

• You can generally rent in a high end suburb you like because it's often too expensive to buy in it
• You can vacate at short notice and don't have to go through the hassle of selling
• You're not exposed in a declining property market
A few problems with your calculations

You assume the rent stays fixed... Maybe not..

For the home owner , The capital gain is yours. Buying a house in same market I understand but you still have the capital gain. You can use the equity to do other things..

Over a longer term the property price rises your repayments go down as you pay less and less Interest. Then the rent goes up..

Fast forward 10 years and the renter is paying more than $700 per week and has nothing to show for his work, missed the boat as it now costs an extra $500k to enter the market.

The home owner is paying less interest now and likely has $500k in capital growth in his pocket. Plenty to show for his work. Try and save $500k, would take a lifetime for most

If interests rates go up well the renter is going to cop that as any landlord will pass the costs on.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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A few problems with your calculations

You assume the rent stays fixed... Maybe not..

The capital gain is yours. Buying a house in same market I understand but you still have the capital gain. You can use the equity to do other things..

Over a longer term the property price rises your repayments go down as you pay less and less Interest. Then the rent goes up..

Fast forward 10 years and the renter is paying more than $700 per week and has nothing to show for his work

The home owner is paying less interest now and likely has $500k in capital growth in his pocket. Plenty to show for his work.

If interests rates go up well the renter is going to cop that as any landlord will pass the costs on.
Why are you answering your own question ?
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:35 PM   #25
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Why are you answering your own question ?
I'm just trying to work through the logic.

Historically there has been some scaremongering in the property market that there will be a decline, that property is overpriced Short term it's certainly possible to lose some money but over the longer term, the last 100 years has shown the home owners to have gapped the renters.

But you never know what tomorrow brings. I remember when houses were half the current price and they were considered too expensive.

We have history to tell us home owners will gap the renters, but if we could predict tomorrow our actions would be far more certain

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Old 04-12-2019, 09:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

The way I look at it is buying is more expensive for the first 25 years, but then suddenly your payments stop and eventually you will be in front of someone who has rented for 30+ years. That is assuming your house doesn't cost huge dollars in repairs and maintenance every year.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

Location, location - location..

I live 6kms from work, paid $450 for rent a week for a short time, but now pay $240 to buy mine.

It surely changes for anyone and everyone's current situation. So, hard to answer.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:50 PM   #28
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Franco, my ol man pays more in body corporate fees (14K annually) than I ever did paying rent per year.
What he pays I could live on a yacht in a nice marina, fee water, electric wifi for less and still afford to take the motorhome up and down the Eastcoast.
Its something I'd have to take into consideration, I'm checking out Melbourne's dodgier inner Northern suburbs like Travancore, Coburg and south of the river - Southbank near the casino but its a bit more expensive, you drop a room for an extra $50K-$75K but its a nicer area.

Southbank is interesting, its only 1.7km2 in size but theres circa 20,000 people living there.

Not interested in going West or East - Footscray is up and coming but theres no public transport and its a bit industrial still, and East sucks because its too busy.

There's some good buying around, Travancore has 2 bedroom apartments with a car spot for sub $350K and its only 5KM from Melbourne CBD, 59 tram stops right outside and its next to the Tullamarine Freeway outbound ramp.

You can see the building if you are heading into the city, its on the right hand side near the Bolte Bridge - its the big *** building that used to be the Lombard paper factory - that area is a tiny suburb called Travancore right between Kensington, Flemington, North Melbourne, and Ascot Vale.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:12 AM   #29
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by ute83 View Post
Congratulations YAW. A question for you. How do you get a thirty year home loan at age 49? Do the banks not take into account that you will retire at some point?


I thought the same thing, but it really did not come into the equation for them. My wife and I are double income no kids, although they did not ask about fur babies of which we have 5.

Just as I am writing this it occurs to me the property is the security for the bank, if ever foreclosures they get the money back.

There is also that not a lot of loans will run for the full 30 years, when you pay more than minimum it comes down dramatically


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Old 05-12-2019, 06:39 AM   #30
roKWiz
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Default Re: Rent vs buy

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Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Its something I'd have to take into consideration, I'm checking out Melbourne's dodgier inner Northern suburbs like Travancore, Coburg and south of the river - Southbank near the casino but its a bit more expensive, you drop a room for an extra $50K-$75K but its a nicer area.

Southbank is interesting, its only 1.7km2 in size but theres circa 20,000 people living there.

Not interested in going West or East - Footscray is up and coming but theres no public transport and its a bit industrial still, and East sucks because its too busy.

There's some good buying around, Travancore has 2 bedroom apartments with a car spot for sub $350K and its only 5KM from Melbourne CBD, 59 tram stops right outside and its next to the Tullamarine Freeway outbound ramp.

You can see the building if you are heading into the city, its on the right hand side near the Bolte Bridge - its the big *** building that used to be the Lombard paper factory - that area is a tiny suburb called Travancore right between Kensington, Flemington, North Melbourne, and Ascot Vale.
Usually if they have shops on ground level they will always be cheaper in the corp fees.
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