Will the Holden brand survive? - Page 29

Syndrome · 25-09-2019, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

You have a short memory. VB commodore.

image

Mate the VB Commodore was made in Australia and had an Australian designed and built drivetrain. Furthermore the VB was unique as it was based on the Opel Record but everything forward of the A-pillar was Opel Senator.

The ZB Commodore has NOTHING Australian - not even the Holden badges.

Fail.

jpd80 · 25-09-2019, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

I couldn't be bothered wading through the Financials..
But, I bet that Toyota Australia's EBITDA is a hell of a lot better than $936

Yes, the the mental strain of a couple of numbers would be very taxing

jpd80 · 25-09-2019, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

It’s simple maths. The wholesale margins are large enough to pay for the salaries of 1600 Toyota Australia employees, property and building costs, asset depreciation and replacement, transportation, advertising... the list goes on... and still make an average $936 profit per vehicle. Then there are the retail margins supporting the dealers, their employees, third party service and product suppliers etc who are also making money out of the sale of those cars.

It sounds quite plausible until you realise total revenue is up around $5.5 B to $6.0 B

jpd80 · 26-09-2019, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, the the mental strain of a couple of numbers would be very taxing

Hayseed,
Apologies, my post above wasn't meant as a snipe at you, it was a commentary
on the creative accountancy at work with most motor corporations, they are
masters at moving money around.

I certainly hope that Holden survives all of this, they have had a horrid two years
and are still swinging away trying to sell vehicles.

Vesper Martini · 26-09-2019, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Whoever it was that determined that a FWD Opel should be called a Commodore will go down in history as being a total wombat.

After they closed local production what else could they use?

When they can no longer source the Opal. Commodore will stop altogether

Wretched · 26-09-2019, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Just to give some perspective regarding sales and profitability in this country,
let's take Toyota's most recent achievement for FY19 (tax year ends March 31, 2019)...LINK
Toyota Australia FY19:
After tax profit was $209 Million
Sales were 223,096...

I know this is simple math but that works out to an average of $936 per vehicle.
Now three things are possible,

1. Toyota operates on very skinny margins on all vehicles?
(unlikely)

2. A lot of Toyota's vehicles make little or no money?
( Maybe vehicles below say $40K don't add much profit?)

3. A crap ton of price transferring is going on?
(Products from Asia sold to Toyota Aust at near full retail price?)

Not disparaging Toyota's strong sales in Australia but just be aware that either
they're not making all that much money or it's being sneakily siphoned off
to another region.

When you consider those are the figures on the runaway sales leader in Australia,
you have to wonder what's in it for the others....

Don't forget they also had to writeoff 2500 people (many having served 20+ years with full payout) and have spent/spending a significant amount of money redeveloping their HQ in Port Melbourne and the Altona site. Current estimates that the whole works since the closure is costing in excess of $250-$300m.

ozrunner · 26-09-2019, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

After they closed local production what else could they use?....

Nothing and that's where they went wrong.

Like Ford did with the Falcon name, Holden should have also dropped the Commodore name and called the Opel what it was either Insignia or whatever else.

Trying to pass this Euro FWD frog off as a replacement for the former aussie built RWD Commodore really peed their faithful off and subsequently determined their future.

arronm · 26-09-2019, 03:22 PM

I think the AWD V6 commodore is a great car.

hayseed · 26-09-2019, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Trying to pass this Euro FWD frog off as a replacement for the former aussie built RWD Commodore really peed their faithful off and subsequently determined their future.

^^^^^^^^ this is Where GM Shat in their Own Nest Bigtime....

prydey · 26-09-2019, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Nothing and that's where they went wrong.

Like Ford did with the Falcon name, Holden should have also dropped the Commodore name and called the Opel what it was either Insignia or whatever else.

Trying to pass this Euro FWD frog off as a replacement for the former aussie built RWD Commodore really peed their faithful off and subsequently determined their future.

I think this is pure speculation. The market was already moving away from large sedans. Compare zb sales with similar sized cars and apart from Camry it actually sells quite well by comparison.

Blaming it on a badge is silly.

BENT_8 · 26-09-2019, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

I think this is pure speculation. The market was already moving away from large sedans. Compare zb sales with similar sized cars and apart from Camry it actually sells quite well by comparison.

Blaming it on a badge is silly.

Agreed, I don't believe any true 'Holden' fan would leave the brand purely because they don't like the Commodore badge on an import.

It might prevent some 'Commodore' buyers from buying another Commodore, but I doubt a Holden fan who wants a dual cab would dismiss the Colorado because of the badge on the Commodore.

When I was looking at buying my Kia I cross shopped the Barina on price, at no point in time did I even consider what they'd done with the Commodore as a reason to avoid the Holden brand, I just preferred the Kia.

But it makes for a good story on a Ford forum...

ozrunner · 26-09-2019, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

I think this is pure speculation. The market was already moving away from large sedans. Compare zb sales with similar sized cars and apart from Camry it actually sells quite well by comparison.
Blaming it on a badge is silly.

You're missing the point. If the ZB was called anything other than a Commodore it is very likely given its downsizing and applicable marketing, it could have been up there with the Camry but it's tarnished as being a Commodore, which it aint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Agreed, I don't believe any true 'Holden' fan would leave the brand purely because they don't like the Commodore badge on an import.

Well obviously they have as this dealer had to shut the doors on Holden as others have.

Quote:

It might prevent some 'Commodore' buyers from buying another Commodore .......

HUH !! isn't that what I've inferred as it aint no Commodore hence ZB stands for Zero Buyers.

jpd80 · 26-09-2019, 08:01 PM

Holden already knew what the score would’ve been had it not changed Insignia for ZB Commodore as it was already selling Insignia alongside the VFII. Anyone thinking that Insignia sold under its real name would challenge Camry for sales is ignoring recent history and Holden’s higher prices.

prydey · 26-09-2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

You're missing the point. If the ZB was called anything other than a Commodore it is very likely given its downsizing and applicable marketing, it could have been up there with the Camry but it's tarnished as being a Commodore, which it aint.
.

What makes you think it would succeed where the likes of mazda6, skoda superb, sonata, mondeo etc etc all sell around the same or worse than the current commode?

Dealerships are closing because for decades there have been substantially more Holden dealerships around the country than any other brand. It wasn't sustainable. Now the number of Holden dealerships will be similar to most other mainstream brands.

UTXR8 · 26-09-2019, 08:17 PM

big flash new Holden dealership going up here in Mildura...

BENT_8 · 26-09-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTXR8

big flash new Holden dealership going up here in Mildura...

Shh...you're not supposed to talk about that 'round these parts

prydey · 26-09-2019, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTXR8

big flash new Holden dealership going up here in Mildura...

Metro Holden in Adelaide are in the process of building fancy new premises also.

BENT_8 · 26-09-2019, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozrunner

it is very likely.

Which is FF speak for "I don't know for sure but I'll run with it because that's what we do"

Hawkeye84 · 27-09-2019, 07:13 AM

right, lets get this thread back on track.

I believe Holden only sold less than 40 commodores the private buyers.
The rest of the numbers were fleet.

Thank goodness theyve got the Colorado is all im saying

Venomous1 · 27-09-2019, 07:32 AM

Holden needs to cull the dealer network asap some tough times in for these dealers yet. I reckon half would do fine.

And Ford need to get serious too if the bubble pops on the Ranger then they are in Holdens shoes asap.

1 trick pony is a very bad idea.

danzvtil · 27-09-2019, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Metro Holden in Adelaide are in the process of building fancy new premises also.

*City Holden.
They sold their CBD premises ( which were very old and hard to modernise) for the green fields site.

There is also another planned for salisbury (prob Mawson lakes), at the time Metro and Peter page were offered it without any guarantees on keeping the dealer liscence.

jpd80 · 28-09-2019, 06:30 AM

The whole idea behind dismantling the local car industry was to end import quotas and taxes and assistance to local manufacturers. The goal was to give local buyers cheaper vehicles. Gotta wonder if prices will now start edging up as importers think about cutting a few base models.

prydey · 28-09-2019, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzvtil

*City Holden.
They sold their CBD premises ( which were very old and hard to modernise) for the green fields site.

There is also another planned for salisbury (prob Mawson lakes), at the time Metro and Peter page were offered it without any guarantees on keeping the dealer liscence.

I was talking about the mile end site they are developing on railway tce. Sounds like there are a few new developments going on.

4wdsteve · 28-09-2019, 09:56 AM

Holden should be taken out the back and shot now. GM have milked it for all its worth it certainly isn't Australian good on ya grandpa you gave all our money to some septic tank corpo.

prydey · 28-09-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4wdsteve

Holden should be taken out the back and shot now. GM have milked it for all its worth it certainly isn't Australian good on ya grandpa you gave all our money to some septic tank corpo.

unlike ford...

**GasoLane** · 28-09-2019, 10:27 AM

Can we please stay on topic and leave ancestry for another thread.

prydey · 28-09-2019, 10:35 AM

the issue I see for Holden is that they don't actually manufacturer cars anymore. If for some reason GM decide to offload the brand, which is just a name only, then that would spell big trouble. They need to be affiliated with a manufacturer but i'm not sure there are any other manufacturers out there that would want to sell their products under the Holden moniker instead of their own. Opel is one I can think of that may be interested in using Holden as their importer.

So the future of holden really has nothing to do with commodore as its not a GM product anymore. The future of holden relies on the GM products doing well to keep GM invested in the country.

hayseed · 28-09-2019, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The whole idea behind dismantling the local car industry was to end import quotas and taxes and assistance to local manufacturers. The goal was to give local buyers cheaper vehicles. Gotta wonder if prices will now start edging up as importers think about cutting a few base models.

Well We're definitely spoilt for Choice in regards car Brands,
However when comparing prices of Similar Models overseas, I think we're getting Shafted when It Comes to the Price We pay..(even after factoring Exchange rates, Shipping ect)

prydey · 28-09-2019, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

Well We're definitely spoilt for Choice in regards car Brands,
However when comparing prices of Similar Models overseas, I think we're getting Shafted when It Comes to the Price We pay..(even after factoring Exchange rates, Shipping ect)

You can't whine about dealerships closing down and then complain that cars are too expensive. While the two things may not be absolutely linked there is a relation. Dealerships have costs, just like any business. Rent, utilities, wages, insurance etc etc. I believe even some floor stock needs to be bought by the dealerships.

Adamz Ghia · 28-09-2019, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

You can't whine about dealerships closing down and then complain that cars are too expensive. While the two things may not be absolutely linked there is a relation. Dealerships have costs, just like any business. Rent, utilities, wages, insurance etc etc. I believe even some floor stock needs to be bought by the dealerships.

With the prices that charge for parts and servicing, they’d make it up. When they’re not selling enough cars to get them through the service dept that’s when it spells trouble.