vFacts October 2019

[Syndrome]

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...r-spot-121408/

[jpd80]

That’s now seven months in a row that Ranger 4x4 has outsold HiLux 4x4, so whatever Ford is doing in that segment is working as it’s not simply undercutting HiLux on price.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s now seven months in a row that Ranger 4x4 has outsold HiLux 4x4, so whatever Ford is doing in that segment is working as it’s not simply undercutting HiLux on price.

Even more of a reason for ford to make sure they keep the ranger fresh and ahead of the pack, the next update is very important to get right

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by au2000

Even more of a reason for ford to make sure they keep the ranger fresh and ahead of the pack, the next update is very important to get right

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

Personally I'd not think so, the contradiction is not lost on me from some of the former falcon motor company haters not seeing the new ranger motor company in the same light,

If ford aus can't make the rest of the range end up near the top of their respective segments then they leave themselves open if a time comes that the ranger falls out of favour.

I find it interesting that the twin cabs are outselling hilux while the "povo packs" loose out to the hilux, yet hilux still outsells ranger.

Be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow tbh

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by au2000

be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow tbh

very...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by au2000

Personally I'd not think so, the contradiction is not lost on me from some of the former falcon motor company haters not seeing the new ranger motor company in the same light,

If ford aus can't make the rest of the range end up near the top of their respective segments then they leave themselves open if a time comes that the ranger falls out of favour.

I find it interesting that the twin cabs are outselling hilux while the "povo packs" loose out to the hilux, yet hilux still outsells Ranger.

Be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow tbh

The 4x4 Ranger outsells the 4x4 Hilux, has done so for past seven months
Hilux 4x2 outsells Ranger 4x2 because it offers a $27k Single Cab petrol Ute, that’s about $10k less than the cheapest Ranger Ute.

These days, the majority of Hilux and Ranger sales are crew cabs in 4x4 and 4x2
the single and extra cab utes are there but small sales compared to crew cabs.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

Maybe Ford USA should look in the mirror. It's not as though Ford USA said "Here Ford Aust. collegues please take our RHD Explorer, RHD F-Series, we'll force Ford Europe to only use torque converter auto tranny's..etc" and Ford Aust. replied "no we won't need those vehicles and treat us as an extention of Ford UK with their buyers preferences".

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

Why? they are basically the F150 car company on percentages

[hayseed]

I'd say the Thialux's DFP chooks are coming home to Roost..

[BENT_8]

The answer is pretty obvious, Ford buyers just buy the Ranger as an all rounder whereas Toyota buyers choose between Hilux, Prado and Kluger etc.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The answer is pretty obvious, Ford buyers just buy the Ranger as an all rounder whereas Toyota buyers choose between Hilux, Prado and Kluger etc.

That is true and their SUVs look insurmountable at the moment but so was Hilux a few years ago and then it had real competition.

I’ve driven Prados for work, nothing flash and I suspect a lot of sales are to fleet rentals - mine cars and site cars to ORIX and the like. If Everest becomes squarer like Bronco or if we get both of them then things might get quite interesting ...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

nothing flash

That basically describes the entire Toyota range, yet they still outsell the nearest opposition by 2 to 1.
People don't care as much about looks or engines, they want reliability which they find in the 'nothing flash' Toyota and value for money from the well backed Kia, its no surprise that the former sits atop the ladder whilst the latter is slowly making inroads.

I said this in the May 2019 Vfacts thread...

"Kia has already outsold Ford once in the last 6 months, before their new offerings arrived, I'd say Kia will take 4th from Ford before Ford takes third.
And they don't even have a ute....yet"

Took less than 6 months.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

That basically describes the entire Toyota range, yet they still outsell the nearest opposition by 2 to 1.
People don't care as much about looks or engines, they want reliability which they find in the 'nothing flash' Toyota and value for money from the well backed Kia, its no surprise that the former sits atop the ladder whilst the latter is slowly making inroads.

I said this in the May 2019 Vfacts thread...

"Kia has already outsold Ford once in the last 6 months, before their new offerings arrived, I'd say Kia will take 4th from Ford before Ford takes third.
And they don't even have a ute....yet"

Took less than 6 months.

But that’s also the absurdity of a “sales race” where Ford is clearly not interested in selling sub $30k vehicles let alone sub $20k vehicles. Trying to compete with those cheap and cheery vehicle is for the most part a waste of time and resources.

Ford is dropping the ball big time in two very important areas,
1. Focus and Escape that don’t compete on price but don’t offer enough to give buyers reason to choose them over vanilla brands. Yes, ask a premium price but also give buyers product that’s worthy of that price, Ford has to do more than just cutting out lower trim levels, it has to actually offer more.

2. it’s lack of sales in mid sized SUVs that compete directly with Toyota’s three- Prado/Fortuner/Kluger. Nail that and Ranger and the future looks much brighter. I have a good idea of what’s coming and it could really shake things up. Ford has its template for success with Ranger, they just need to apply that learning to the SUVs.

Kia is a bottom feeder, it’s already starting to chop into Toyota and Mazda compact and subcompact sales. Once that happens, you watch those two
Sales leaders bobble, already happening to Mazda.

[Fordman1]

Holden ? Gone

[Rob 351]

https://www.caradvice.com.au/805288/...ota-hilux-4x4/

[Fordman1]

Holden down 41%

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Holden down 41%

They must be buying cheap and cheery kias and hyundais

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

They must be buying cheap and cheery kias and hyundais

Certainly not buying an alternative American brand..

[jpd80]

Ford would actually be pleased that Australia has embraced a global product that doesn’t rely on Australian sales for survival, finding $700 million every seven years or so was a real problem but now that America is bankrolling development of T6 Bronco, a crap ton of good stuff is now available to all T6 products.

The best thing Ford could do is double down with more and better T6 products, Aussies love and miss that six cylinder smoothness and easy power, if Ford manages to replicate that in a non-car vehicle segment, then they will recover a lot of sales.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford would actually be pleased that Australia has embraced a global product that doesn’t rely on Australian sales for survival, finding $700 million every seven years or so was a real problem but now that America is bankrolling development of T6 Bronco, a crap ton of good stuff is now available to all T6 products.

The best thing Ford could do is double down with more and better T6 products, Aussies love and miss that six cylinder smoothness and easy power, if Ford manages to replicate that in a non-car vehicle segment, then they will recover a lot of sales.

There's a lot of extra money and effort going into Ranger. A lot. Ford HQ know how important Ranger now is globally and are really pushing it. The next few years will put Hilux in it's place.

And can we all move past trying to compare sales figures against companies that sell small, cheap low profit junk. I found this interesting.

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/kia/k...-04/80389.html

When asked what the brand will do once passenger cars stop becoming a profitable venture for the brand around 2021 or 2022, Mr Meredith said KMAu has plans up its sleeves to replace the volume elsewhere.

Looks like they will eventually follow Ford's lead of replacing small cars for ones that actually make decent profit. Pretty funny considering the boneheads who continually get stuck into Ford about pulling out of passenger cars

Profit is where it's at, not sales numbers (the GM bankruptcy approach).

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's a lot of extra money and effort going into Ranger. A lot. Ford HQ know how important Ranger now is globally and are really pushing it. The next few years will put Hilux in it's place.

And can we all move past trying to compare sales figures against companies that sell small, cheap low profit junk. I found this interesting.

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/kia/k...-04/80389.html

When asked what the brand will do once passenger cars stop becoming a profitable venture for the brand around 2021 or 2022, Mr Meredith said KMAu has plans up its sleeves to replace the volume elsewhere.

Looks like they will eventually follow Ford's lead of replacing small cars for ones that actually make decent profit. Pretty funny considering the boneheads who continually get stuck into Ford about pulling out of passenger cars

Profit is where it's at, not sales numbers (the GM bankruptcy approach).

I understand that it obviously frustrates you that Australian consumers would rather purchase white goods on wheels or cheap low profit junk than the cars you work on, but is it too much to ask for you to get your message across without the condascending tones, it says nothing about our shopping habits but plenty about you.

Also, could you clarify your opinion of junk, as I'm not sure if you're referencing my $18k purchase which has been faultless or someone else's 60k dualcab with stuffed gearbox or dodgy injectors.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I understand that it obviously frustrates you that Australian consumers would rather purchase white goods on wheels or cheap low profit junk than the cars you work on, but is it too much to ask for you to get your message across without the condascending tones, it says nothing about our shopping habits but plenty about you.

Also, could you clarify your opinion of junk, as I'm not sure if you're referencing my $18k purchase which has been faultless or someone else's 60k dualcab with stuffed gearbox or dodgy injectors.

Personally, I don't regard Kia or Hyundai as junk, I think they're a real handful
for the Japanese brands and will keep gnawing away at them until they "get the lot"
Ford is wise to choose which parts of them market it wants to participate in,
the prices of vehicles have far less bearing on reliability and more about the
customers wants and needs, the need for low price versus the gotta haves
that will pay a big premium for a particular type of vehicle......

Ford and Holden had their niche buyers and let them go, Ford was given a second chance
but still needs to do more/better, Holden is out the gate, "Ted Bullpitt" and all his extended
family now drive Kias and Hyundais.

[jpd80]

Top sellers by vehicle segment

Micro Cars (393, down 25 per cent):
Kia Picanto (322), Mitsubishi Mirage (37), Fiat 500 (34)

Light Cars < $25k (4580, down 23.3 per cent):
Toyota Yaris ( 863), Suzuki Swift (538), Hyundai Accent (529)

Light Cars > $25k (172, down 29.2 per cent):
Mini hatch (138), Audi A1 (27), Citroen C3 (7)

Small Cars < $40k (10,634, down 19.8 per cent):
Hyundai i30 (2216), Toyota Corolla (2117), Kia Cerato (1827)

Small Cars > $40k (943, down 16.8 per cent):
Audi A3 (236), Mercedes-Benz A-Class (202), Mercedes-Benz B-Class (198)

Medium Cars < $60k (2283, up 4.6 per cent):
Toyota Camry (1505), Mazda 6 (144), Skoda Octavia (122)

Medium Cars > $60k (1476, up 43.2 per cent):
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (546), BMW 3 Series (365), Mercedes-Benz CLA (111)

Large Cars < $70k (658, down 25.3 per cent):
Holden Commodore (469), Kia Stinger (131), Skoda Superb (38)

Large Cars > $70k (231, down 9.8 per cent):
Mercedes-Benz E-Class (84), BMW 5 Series (64), Chrysler 300 (25)

People Movers (1204, up 14.3 per cent):
Kia Carnival (587), Honda Odyssey (123), Mercedes-Benz V-Class (119)

Sports Cars < $80k (546, down 44.6 per cent):
Ford Mustang (214), Hyundai Veloster (76), BMW 2 Series (75)

Sports Cars $80k - $200k (443, up 29.5 per cent):
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (196), Toyota Supra (46), Audi A5 (42)

Small SUV < $40k (9802, down 1.8 per cent):
Mitsubishi ASX (1517), Hyundai Kona (1367), Mazda CX-3 (1216)

Small SUV > $40k (1213, down 15.6 per cent):
BMW X1 (286), Volvo XC40 (200), Lexus UX (176)

Medium SUV < $60k (13,192, down 4.2 per cent):
Toyota RAV4 (2132), Mazda CX-5 (1708), Hyundai Tucson (1693)

Medium SUV > $60k (2627, down 0.5 per cent):
Mercedes-Benz GLC (573), BMW X3/X4 (419), Audi Q5 (395)

Large SUV < $70k (8845, down 6.2 per cent):
Toyota Prado (1513), Toyota Kluger (1087), Isuzu MU-X (672)

Large SUV > $70k (1349, up 14.9 per cent):
Mercedes-Benz GLE (334), BMW X5 (168), Lexus RX (166)

Upper Large SUV < $100k (1419, up 14.8 per cent):
Toyota LandCruiser (1325), Nissan Patrol (94)

Upper Large SUV > $100k (201, up 12.3 per cent):
BMW X7 (60), Audi Q8 (39), Mercedes-Benz G-Wagen (34)

Small Vans (179, down 24.2 per cent):
Volkswagen Caddy 101, Renault Kangoo (40), Peugeot Partner (30)

Medium Vans (1618, down 14.3 per cent):
Toyota HiAce (619), Hyundai iLoad (294), Ford Transit Custom (169)

4x2 Utes (2390, down 16.1 per cent):
Toyota HiLux (838), Isuzu D-Max (382), Ford Ranger (287)

4x4 Utes (12,707, down 9.3 per cent):
Ford Ranger (2873), Toyota HiLux (2678), Holden Colorado (1218)

[janddbone]

I am still in complete denial about MG, just wow.

[Bossxr8]

Market is really struggling atm. 19th straight month of decline. And it's dropping in every area, private, fleet and government.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Market is really struggling atm. 19th straight month of decline. And it's dropping in every area, private, fleet and government.

People holding onto their money, not willing to commit too heavily at the moment. Cutting interest rates have almost no impact on those who are struggling financially at the moment.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

People holding onto their money, not willing to commit too heavily at the moment. Cutting interest rates have almost no impact on those who are struggling financially at the moment.

Most people are probably like me and just put the savings from the interest rate cuts straight onto the mortgage, rather than pay less.

Sports cars and the like, which are more often than not indulgent purchases are the first to go. Just look how much Mustang has dropped.

Although the Everest has steadily improved in sales. Takes a while to build a new nameplate. Not sure if it's still the case but it had improved month over month year to date for quite a while.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Most people are probably like me and just put the savings from the interest rate cuts straight onto the mortgage, rather than pay less.

Sports cars and the like, which are more often than not indulgent purchases are the first to go. Just look how much Mustang has dropped.

Although the Everest has steadily improved in sales. Takes a while to build a new nameplate. Not sure if it's still the case but it had improved month over month year to date for quite a while.

Keep in mind that the biggest draw card Everest has is a 2.0 diesel and ten speed auto.
A lot of buyers that Ford is trying to attract from say, Toyota are still capacity centric
and probably expect a three litre engine, so that's probably the first change needed.
Right products, right segments.

Economy pressure is more discreet than people stop buying sports cars, it might be a
litmus test but the pressure is not across all people, it's like the tight budget households
are going with the Koreans instead of Japanese but as Bent said, loyal buyers seem to be
sticking in the over thirty thousand dollar segments. That should be encouraging to Toyota
and other manufacturers that they can indeed do more in those segments.

^^^^ And this is what I was alluding to in earlier posts, there's a lot of room for someone
like Ford to offer more in the upper segments and get good gains there rather than trying to
compete with Corolla and the like, those will continue to be cannon fodder for the Koreans.

I know that Bent can't see that happening because until Ford has the products to challenge,
then it's just a theoretical conversation, the next step is for Ford to man up and give Aussie
buyers more of that they crave....

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Market is really struggling atm. 19th straight month of decline. And it's dropping in every area, private, fleet and government.

This is actually a good thing, if you think about it. Almost every single car is now imported and so declining sales means a lesser hit on Australia's balance of payments. If our exports (coal, gas, ore, housing, holidays, university and public school placements) hold up, that bodes well for a trade surplus.

Even better news: the biggest % increase is RAM at 140%, that's the car that's modified on an Australian production line!