Drag Racing Events and Rules - FF.COM.AU - Page 2

loxxr6 · 14-02-2005, 05:28 PM

**duplicate post - delete ***

loxxr6 · 14-02-2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

The chips usually only adjust A/F and spark.

But edits do more than a/f and spark. (yeah I'm dwelling on new cars sorry) I have nfi what the Tweecer things do tho.

However this all works out, it will make for some very interesting results.

geea · 14-02-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

I disagree. The chips usually only adjust A/F and spark. This is no different to Pre EF and Pre AU cars adjusting the timing with the dizzy in part anyhow.
So by relegating a chipped car to the Pro Street then the same must be done to anyone how has adjusted the distributer for more power.......impossible to enforce of course.

The chips and edit have a big impact on XR6T's. An XR6T with chip, change of filter and minor exhaust mods will run low 13's and with an edit it would be even quicker. Maybe the XR6T's need to be thought of differently when doing the classes for this reason.
My old XR6T had chip,injectors,2nd CAI, minor exhaust work and ran 12.2 @115mph. These are only minor mods with a major difference in results.

Geea. :voldar02:

Xtreme F6 · 14-02-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

Pro Street.
Same rules as Performance Street but any tires and rim configuration allowed. Slicks or DOT tyres. No limit. Must retain standard wheel arches.
No body mods allowed or chassis changes.
No Cubic Engine changes in this section
Cam Changes allowed
Diff Changes allowed

Will Unichips & Edits etc only be allowed in the Pro Street Category. These would have a bigger effect on performance than diff ratio's surely ?

I think Perf Street should just be better air filters, air intakes, exhaust and other everyday minor mods. Leave Pro Street to chips, cams, headwork and whatever else was mentioned.

impossible to do.....Every second car has edits or chips... Not cams ect ect..

Casper · 14-02-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

But edits do more than a/f and spark. (yeah I'm dwelling on new cars sorry) I have nfi what the Tweecer things do tho.

However this all works out, it will make for some very interesting results.

No, basically the vast majority of edits, chips and plug ins only really modify A/F and spark. That is until cams, diffs and highstalls etc get involved...in which case the chip is irrelevant as they are already in Pro street.
I cant think of what else a chip can do to a stock cammed/diff car that isnt really just finetuning the A/f and spark.

Casper · 14-02-2005, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

The chips and edit have a big impact on XR6T's. An XR6T with chip, change of filter and minor exhaust mods will run low 13's and with an edit it would be even quicker. Maybe the XR6T's need to be thought of differently when doing the classes for this reason.
My old XR6T had chip,injectors,2nd CAI, minor exhaust work and ran 12.2 @115mph. These are only minor mods with a major difference in results.

Geea. :voldar02:

agreed, the turbo chips may need a different status however you had different injectors...thats an engine mod so would be pro street anyhow.

I'll let others work out the turbo side of things as I'm not really up to speed on them and what chips do to them.

Xtreme F6 · 14-02-2005, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

The chips and edit have a big impact on XR6T's. An XR6T with chip, change of filter and minor exhaust mods will run low 13's and with an edit it would be even quicker. Maybe the XR6T's need to be thought of differently when doing the classes for this reason.
My old XR6T had chip,injectors,2nd CAI, minor exhaust work and ran 12.2 @115mph. These are only minor mods with a major difference in results.

Geea. :voldar02:

I dont really understand Geea. Its the customers choice of chip... If they get more power from one chip then an edit or vice versa this classing will help nut out the better mods for all to buy.

I think the turbo classes are pretty close.

geea · 14-02-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP-330

I dont really understand Geea. Its the customers choice of chip... If they get more power from one chip then an edit or vice versa this classing will help nut out the better mods for all to buy.

I think the turbo classes are pretty close.

My bad. I didn't realise there was a special section for the Turbo 6. I thought they were classed with the other cars. What i was saying was that the chip/edit would have a much bigger impact on the turbo 6 than on the other cars. With the turbo 6 having there own class this won't be aan issue.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was reading last night and must have been too tired to take it all in properly.

Geea.

Xtreme F6 · 14-02-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geea

My bad. I didn't realise there was a special section for the Turbo 6. I thought they were classed with the other cars. What i was saying was that the chip/edit would have a much bigger impact on the turbo 6 than on the other cars. With the turbo 6 having there own class this won't be aan issue.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was reading last night and must have been too tired to take it all in properly.

Geea.

No Problems Buddy,
The Turbo class is definatly going to make for sum interesting results. I think the rules that have been set so far as a good starting point, guy like yourself who are stand outs in the racing community are the ones whos imput is important. I think but mostly its almost there

outback_ute · 14-02-2005, 06:33 PM

One question – last time at Heathcote I ran no air cleaner, and larger wheels/tyres on the rear (also removed the sump guard sfa difference, probably wouldn’t do it again). Am I still in factory stock or performance street? The car has no other mods whatsoever (and I don’t really class the above as mods anyway) and runs 91 octane not 98. If you have to retain stock rubber – well, I really don’t want to have to drag with 8ply light truck tyres... I think there should be a bit of latitude as there would be some people who fit a set of mags to their cars without any other mods, and on street rubber there isn't that much advantage, perhaps a size restriction though.

smciner1 · 14-02-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

There has to be lines drawn in the sand somewhere. And I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this Laminge.

But someone will always whinge.
So let me start :hihi:
It strikes me that the rules have been drafted with late model Fords in mind.
If there is an "unopened" Cleveland getting around the streets it's got plenty of km's on it.
"Must run cats" I would add where fitted.
The "standard manifold" on a Windsor or Cleveland is a much larger handicap than on an XR8
Perhaps we could have some sort of age based modification allowance?
I will think on this more and try and come up with some idea instead of just whining

:

My thoughts exactly.

Okay, here is a few ideas. As Work Horse said, In classes where it says MUST RUN CATS, make it MUST RUN CATS WHERE LEGALLY REQUIRED (IE 1986 and after cars).

I also don't like the idea of running X series cars in different classes to E Series / AU / BA. I think there is someway you can run them toghether.

Performance Street.
All bolt ons allowed. (Agreed)
Must stay N/A. (Agreed)
Must run 98 octane fuel. (Agreed)
Un opened engines. (How about Standard Rebuilt)
Standard manifold, Oversize throttle bodies allowed. (Reword to Include Carburettors)
Tyres, can run changes to equavalent ratings, NO adr or Drags (RWC Standards) (Agreed)
All body parts must stay intact. (Agreed)
No removal of exhaust components. (I assume you mean "Dropped Pipes")
Aftermarket Exhaust allowed. (Agreed)
Must run Cats. (Where Required)
No body mods allowed or chassis changes. (Agreed)
No Diff Changes (Please clarify if a Ratio Change is included in this)

Will post more ideas later. Thanks for everyones input.

outback_ute · 14-02-2005, 07:29 PM

The classes seem pretty good, I would apply them to all efi vehicles, and have an equivalent set of rules for carby vehicles. I would suggest a slight clarification to the tyre rules, and put R-spec type (circuit racing) or drag radials in Pro Street class as these are not “normal” daily driver tyres. I would also suggest that wheels up to an inch wider are allowed in factory stock class (no restriction on diameter as it is not an advantage) as I don’t see there is that much gain on normal street rubber in an otherwise standard vehicle. Also for the turbo section there should be a restriction to the stock turbo and exhaust manifold in Performance Street class.

Here is my attempt at carby vehicle classes. Basically the classes have more freedoms because the older cars are less likely to be raced in full standard spec.

Mild Street
Cars are to be run to a recognised specification available stock from the factory (caters for conversion to a different spec to what the car was originally built to, eg V8 conversion, but must be stock for that specification)
Air cleaner & exhaust from first join back can be changed
Must run 14 or 15” wheels, max width 7”, max tyre width 245mm, NO adr or Drags (RWC Standards)

Performance Street
Carby & intake free but cannot increase number of venturi’s
Exhaust free
Cam free (suggestion)
Must retain stock cylinder head/s
Diff ratio can be changed to 3.5:1 maximum
Must run “normal” street tyres, max tyre width 265 (possibly 275 or 295 to allow for coupes?), NO adr or Drags (RWC Standards)
All body parts must stay intact.
No removal of exhaust components.
Aftermarket Exhaust allowed.
Must run Cats if applicable.
No body mods allowed or chassis changes.

Pro Street.
Same rules as Performance Street but slicks or DOT tyres allowed. No limit. Must retain standard wheel arches.
No body mods allowed or chassis changes.
Cylinder heads free
Carbies – number of venturi’s free
Diff Changes free

Outlaw Street.
All mechanical restrictions removed.
No body mods allowed or chassis hanges.
All forms of power adders allowed. (Turbo’s S/C NO2).

All full-on drag setup cars could be run in the same class, with capacity to weight divisions if necessary, as there isn't likely to be that many.

Work Horse · 14-02-2005, 08:00 PM

Here's my ideas so earlier models can play with everyone else on a levelish playing field. Changes for X series or pre 1986 in Red

Performance Street.
All bolt ons allowed.
Must stay N/A.
Must run 98 octane fuel.
Un opened engines.
Engine must be factory fitted or an option. Eg 351 in XD yes 460 in cortina no.
Engines may be modified but no roller cams,stroker cranks or aftermarket heads
Standard manifold, Oversize throttle bodies allowed.
Any single 4 barrel and after market manifold that fits under a standard bonnet. Shakers ok no high rise manifolds tunnel rams multi carbs etc
Tyres, can run changes to equavalent ratings, NO adr or Drags (RWC Standards)
All body parts must stay intact.
No removal of exhaust components.
Aftermarket Exhaust allowed.
Must run Cats.
Where factoy fitted
No body mods allowed or chassis changes.
No Diff Changes
Factory diffs any ratio

I would leave the other classes as they are.
Rods pursuit would be leading the Performance street class as it stands, so it will take mid 12's to be competitive. I don't believe my suggestions go too far, what do others think?

outback_ute you should run the 8 plys and fill BOTH petrol tanks, wear a really big hat over your crash helmet and get one of those canvas water bags for the bullbar, thats closer to stock John :hihi:

Xtreme F6 · 14-02-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smciner1

My thoughts exactly.

Okay, here is a few ideas. As Work Horse said, In classes where it says MUST RUN CATS, make it MUST RUN CATS WHERE LEGALLY REQUIRED (IE 1986 and after cars).

I also don't like the idea of running X series cars in different classes to E Series / AU / BA. I think there is someway you can run them toghether.

Performance Street.
All bolt ons allowed. (Agreed)
Must stay N/A. (Agreed)
Must run 98 octane fuel. (Agreed)
Un opened engines. (How about Standard Rebuilt)
Standard manifold, Oversize throttle bodies allowed. (Reword to Include Carburettors)
Tyres, can run changes to equavalent ratings, NO adr or Drags (RWC Standards) (Agreed)
All body parts must stay intact. (Agreed)
No removal of exhaust components. (I assume you mean "Dropped Pipes")
Aftermarket Exhaust allowed. (Agreed)
Must run Cats. (Where Required)
No body mods allowed or chassis changes. (Agreed)
No Diff Changes (Please clarify if a Ratio Change is included in this)

Will post more ideas later. Thanks for everyones input.

You couldnt get it to work including the older cars in the same catagory... WHats the problem with having them have there own?

It gets way to hard to try and blend all the cars. Its just easier to have a few of you guys who run the older mofels to make a couple of classes for the older cars that are fair...

If you guys want ill do them for you and then you make your minds up on changes.

smciner1 · 14-02-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Carby & intake free but cannot increase number of venturi’s

Trouble is what happens to guys like Brenx and others who start out with a plain Falcon / Fairmont 351? They only ran a 2 Barrel Carby from the Factory.

SpoolMan · 14-02-2005, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smciner1

No Diff Changes (Please clarify if a Ratio Change is included in this)

Will post more ideas later. Thanks for everyones input.

Hi Shane, bit slack on the (TM) in your post....
Diff changes changing ratio's should be allowed, to put a ratio change in the same vain as a opened engine would be wrong...
as long as you are still using the same factory drive shafts, cv's, axles.
there is no strengthing of parts with a ratio change...its a factory part..(TM)

smciner1 · 14-02-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRFPV8

Hi Shane, bit slack on the (TM) in your post....
Diff changes changing ratio's should be allowed, to put a ratio change in the same vain as a opened engine would be wrong...
as long as you are still using the same factory drive shafts, cv's, axles.
there is no strengthing of parts with a ratio change...its a factory part..(TM)

I gues us guys running Top Loaders (tm) and 9" Diffs (tm) have an advantage then.

:sm_headba

And yes, I have been Slack (tm) due to ADSLBUSTEDARSEP0RNPIPE (tm).

Xtreme F6 · 14-02-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smciner1

Trouble is what happens to guys like Brenx and others who start out with a Plain Falcon / Fairmont 351? They only ran a 2 Barrel Carby from the Factory.

omg... You guys.... Hang on hang on.. In one post you call us chickens for wanting to seperate them and in the next you complain about it cos of 2 barrel carbs.. Thats why IT WAS SEPERATE!..

Cant you guys just say hey lets have our set of rules that makes everyone happy????? You will ge the same rewards.. Its to hard to compare a injected GT to a xe... This isnt chickens bs this is just trying to make it fair.. please...

Fordy · 14-02-2005, 11:46 PM

This may not even be relevant but what if someone decides to put late model running gear in their early model falcon???

smciner1 · 15-02-2005, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRFPV8

I Agree Shane and Johnny, we need to ask all the questions now, get input from everyone. Every owner of a different model car looks at this different. I must admit when I 1st looked at these classes I only thought of Boss powered cars and the 260 starts 30 kw behind its big brother..

Correct Mark, and if you put a set of GT Camshafts in an XR8, it is no longer an Unopened (tm) engine is it.

Work Horse · 15-02-2005, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP-330

omg... You guys.... Hang on hang on.. In one post you call us chickens for wanting to seperate them and in the next you complain about it cos of 2 barrel carbs.. Thats why IT WAS SEPERATE!..

Cant you guys just say hey lets have our set of rules that makes everyone happy????? You will ge the same rewards.. Its to hard to compare a injected GT to a xe... This isnt chickens bs this is just trying to make it fair.. please...

LOL the chicken thing was a joke.

GTP-330 Just about every class under ANDRA rules caters for more than one kind of vehicle, so it can certianly be done. The LS1's have thier own class, and I believe this is the type of thing you want. There is no reason why you could not run that within a set of rules that we all agree with, and can compete in.

Feed back was asked for, but you will not have a bar of anything but your original draft, why ask for others input?

I don't need to win I just want to race!

Fordy · 15-02-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRFPV8

I Agree Shane and Johnny, we need to ask all the questions now, get input from everyone. Every owner of a different model car looks at this different. I must admit when I 1st looked at these classes I only thought of Boss powered cars and the 260 starts 30 kw behind its big brother..

I was just thinking about where my xw might fit in, as its running an old style boss motor, and then i started to think about all the variables in the older cars and beleive it or not there are a few of us around.

Xtreme F6 · 15-02-2005, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

LOL the chicken thing was a joke.

GTP-330 Just about every class under ANDRA rules caters for more than one kind of vehicle, so it can certianly be done. The LS1's have thier own class, and I believe this is the type of thing you want. There is no reason why you could not run that within a set of rules that we all agree with, and can compete in.

Feed back was asked for, but you will not have a bar of anything but your original draft, why ask for others input?

I don't need to win I just want to race!

Why not have your own rules? Why make it more complicated then it has to? If you can come up with a set of rules that will siut everyone, and make everyone happy you have my vote

: I was just trying to help... I dont care aslong as everyones happy... Lets see what you got

SpoolMan · 15-02-2005, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

I don't need to win I just want to race!

Stuart i am with you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordy

I was just thinking about where my xw might fit in, as its running an old style boss motor, and then i started to think about all the variables in the older cars and beleive it or not there are a few of us around.

Johnny your right, we tend to look at only the cars we drive ourselves when we look at the classes, this is why we need more input from a broader range of Ford owners like yourself..
We need to take everyones idea's, concerns back to the table and work through them all...

brenx · 15-02-2005, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smciner1

Trouble is what happens to guys like Brenx and others who start out with a Plain Falcon / Fairmont 351? They only ran a 2 Barrel Carby from the Factory.

2 brl from the factory on a 351? I think you'll find they were stock 4brl carb'd. Either way I'm not concerned about what classes are what. I race street legal less tyres and thats all there is to it

I only race against myself bugger everyone else. My challenges are my own.

Brenden

smciner1 · 15-02-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenx

2 brl from the factory on a 351? I think you'll find they were stock 4brl carb'd. Either way I'm not concerned about what classes are what. I race street legal less tyres and thats all there is to it

I only race against myself bugger everyone else. My challenges are my own.

Brenden

The XC was the first regular V8 Falcon to get a 4 Barrel Carburettor (remember the Carter Thermo-Crap?). Prior to that they all had 2 Barrel ones.

brenx · 15-02-2005, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smciner1

The XC was the first regular V8 Falcon to get a 4 Barrel Carburettor (remember the Carter Thermo-Crap?). Prior to that they all had 2 Barrel ones.

Yup I remember the thermo crap but obviously you've forgot about the 4brl 4300 motorcraft carb that was factory on 351 XB's. Only 302's had 2brl carbs.

[edit]The 302's had the 2100 motorcraft carb.

Brenden

Xtreme F6 · 15-02-2005, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenx

Yup I remember the thermo crap but obviously you've forgot about the 4brl 4300 motorcraft carb that was factory on 351 XB's. Only 302's had 2brl carbs.

[edit]The 302's had the 2100 motorcraft carb.

Brenden

Early model fairlanes had 2 bbl on 351's factories.. I think it was a ZD.. headlights above eachother???... Got it from a old guy STOCK 2 bbl... He had it from new.

smciner1 · 15-02-2005, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brenx

Yup I remember the thermo crap but obviously you've forgot about the 4brl 4300 motorcraft carb that was factory on 351 XB's. Only 302's had 2brl carbs.

[edit]The 302's had the 2100 motorcraft carb.

Brenden

No, I haven't forgotten it

302 had the Stromberg WW 2 Barrel (also used on 250 2V Engine I think)
351 2V had the Motorcraft 2100 2 Barrel
351 4V had the Motorcraft 4300 4 Barrel

brenx · 15-02-2005, 01:15 AM

Correct and when it came to XB's. 4V didn't mean big valve, big port heads. It just meant 4 venturi (4brl carb/manifold). It's the most common mistake. 4V heads were very rare in XB's due to changes in emission laws. In 1975 the canister was implemented and the 351 OC 2V head was born (made a definate).

Some luxo barge 351's had the 2brl as those weren't made with performance in mind.

Brenden