Will the Holden brand survive?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Yep some good comments.

Cav my reading is the Chinese have a history of expansion and then imploding in on themselves. With over 40Tn of debt, and bad debts accelerating to the extent some of their State Owned Enterprises are defaulting, I'd suggest looking for spanners in the machinery. It's not too long ago it was the Japanese buying up all of Australia and being the next unstoppable power, soon after they copped 3 lost decades (as they did not write the debts of their bubble off) with no end in sight. Behind the scenes, many companies are shifting their supply chains currently.

US pivot is to the Pacific, and a comparison of the map in July 1941 to now sees the US far further forward deployed than in Roosevelt's time. It would be a mistake to write off the current superpower, they have a habit of rising to the occasion and summoning vast resolve, the last time they'd just gone through the Great Depression. This time around there are many independent smaller nations that may have some disquiet to the recent expansion.

One thing for sure, the current globalism (and cheap goods) have peaked and as we see trade spats, tariffs etc go up, it will be an end for this cheap produce being readily available. Trump just knackered the WTO appeals court, and countries will go back to individual negotiation on trade.

Exactly. The Globalists thought it was business as usual with Hillary winning the 2016 election, they never thought she'd loose. Except, she did, Trump is not a career politician beholden to anyone, he's systematically restoring businesses in the US, people are getting their jobs back, their economy is going great. Trump's brought vaChina to its knees, they're having to root out their deep state operatives in order to avoid further tariffs which only hurt itself.

Australia on the other hand is going down the gurgler, aided and abetted by all the political parties.

[blue sleeper]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Exactly. The Globalists thought it was business as usual with Hillary winning the 2016 election, they never thought she'd loose. Except, she did, Trump is not a career politician beholden to anyone, he's systematically restoring businesses in the US, people are getting their jobs back, their economy is going great. Trump's brought vaChina to its knees, they're having to root out their deep state operatives in order to avoid further tariffs which only hurt itself.

Australia on the other hand is going down the gurgler, aided and abetted by all the political parties.

The Button Plan ended up being the nuclear button plan to the entire car industry here.....

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

The Button Plan ended up being the nuclear button plan to the entire car industry here.....

And Keating said it was and still stands by it today, one of the best things to happen to Australia and the automotive industry.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by bungarra

And Keating said it was and still stands by it today, one of the best things to happen to Australia and the automotive industry.

It's almost like they were a 5th column trying to destroy the place. The biggest burden fell on the working people who were in the auto industry - as tariffs fell their jobs got eradicated. It's just stunning that the policy came from the side of politics that is supposed to look out for workers. You can stick it to the evil bosses, but if there's no job at the end you lose and they lose.

Originally Posted by Romulus

Exactly. The Globalists thought it was business as usual with Hillary winning the 2016 election, they never thought she'd loose. Except, she did, Trump is not a career politician beholden to anyone, he's systematically restoring businesses in the US, people are getting their jobs back, their economy is going great. Trump's brought vaChina to its knees, they're having to root out their deep state operatives in order to avoid further tariffs which only hurt itself.

Australia on the other hand is going down the gurgler, aided and abetted by all the political parties.

I reckon we will see the same play out in Australia eventually - some departments will be at war with the ideals of others, then electorally we will swing in to join the tide going on in the US, UK etc. We're just one cycle behind them, maybe 7-10 years. Absolutely everything has been sacrificed to keep prosperity going, keep the housing bubble, keep out of recession since 1990. Sometimes you just have to let the things happen. The price we've paid is lost our industry, house prices to the moon locking out young locals, sold off university places of young locals, rented out our future. Surely a recession once in a while would be better?

Here's Donny in a 1980 (1980!) interview - note how consistent his views are over 40 years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAgJAxkALyc

Originally Posted by blue sleeper

The Button Plan ended up being the nuclear button plan to the entire car industry here.....

If you want an industry you have to nurture and support it. You can't play free trade if everyone else is protecting their industries.

Cav that was a good link.

[Sprintey]

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

GM Didn't want someone to Buy Holden, & show them how It should('ve) be(en) Done.........

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Also, the only hope for Holden would have been if the billionaire auto parts entrepreneur (think he owns a GM transmission plant in Belgium) was able to buy the Aussie production. That deal didn't go through.

If it did, they would still be making the RWD VF platform, there would be no FWD Commodore fiasco, Aussie who buy patriotically would still have an option, affordable RWD performance fans would still have an option (RWD wagon fans too!) - and there would still be large scale auto value-adding going on in SA. GM might benefit too, selling V8 motors and V6s to the concern with none of the manufacture/distribution risks. For the billionaire, the risk would be selling VF as a sedan as the segment continues to shrink, so the smart money would suggest they would have an SUV based on the platform at advanced development stage about now.

Therein lies part of the problem, Aussies aren't patriotic when it comes to parting with their cash, they're price focused primarily.

Part of the demise of the automotive industry is unelected government bureaucrats and government sector employees, who've never created either a single job in their lives, or 'worked' a single day in their lives, conjuring up policies which disadvantaged local manufacturing to the advantage of overseas suppliers. The Falcon Ecoboost was a specific vehicle that came to mind, it met the 'CO2' emission target of less than 200g/km, so government agencies reduced the target for fleet vehicles, local produced vehicles were never going to get a look in.