Toyota Aurion - My Thoughts

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

it IS better on fuel consumption than the 3.6

Only because it wieghs 200kg less, and is fwd :

[duaned]

[Stattic]

Originally Posted by duaned

please, kezzer has ruined a good discussion

[Wally]

Originally Posted by mick.wheelz

I know i shouldn't feed the troll but oh well.

the 3.6 makes 10kW @ the flywheel more than the 2GR... but the 3.6 has both direct injection and 100cc more displacement,

yet you are trying to argue that the 3.6 is a better engine... the difference in power between the two motors is minimal... so clearly holden's direct injection system is ratshit if it can only make 10kw more than a motor that is smaller, and uses a conventional injection system.

Its been said earlier in the thread that the DI version of the 2GR makes 28kw more than the non DI.... that in itself proves how poor holden's implementation of DI is.

If you take peaks as the be all or end, but area under the curves if probably a better measure of performance (sans economy and pollution) comparison. By that I mean the power curve area per increment of rpm:- afterall that is what governs vehicle acceleration in whatever gear.

[UNR8D]

You havent proven me wrong on anything, the 3.6l is the better engine, your blind.

I'm able to reply to your dribble without the need for it to be read/spoken to me... so your wrong again.

Kezzer, If I could find a way of giving you a :( for every post bar 1/2 in here I would, you show no comprehension as to the genuine facts/reports given to you and go off on a tangent, a pick and choose of which figures you use where and then call us all idiots.

GROW UP.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by duaned

There is always someone stupid enough on these forums not to interpret a post correctly. blah blah blah cry blah

Noice !

No, stupid is not stating what you mean correctly the first time : .
Hoping people will interpret you correctly is also stupid.

This thread is Stupid ! :togo:

[mick.wheelz]

Originally Posted by Wally

If you take peaks as the be all or end, but area under the curves if probably a better measure of performance (sans economy and pollution) comparison. By that I mean the power curve area per increment of rpm:- afterall that is what governs vehicle acceleration in whatever gear.

You are correct here, it is power delivery that dictates a cars drivability.

I was merely feeding the troll with peak power figures.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by UNR8D

I'm able to reply to your dribble without the need for it to be read/spoken to me... so your wrong again.

Kezzer, If I could find a way of giving you a :( for every post bar 1/2 in here I would, you show no comprehension as to the genuine facts/reports given to you and go off on a tangent, a pick and choose of which figures you use where and then call us all idiots.

GROW UP.

Wow, what a childish response, with no actual facts, just a big off topic personal attack. Goodwork, take your own advice and grow up

Commodore
Power 210kW @ 6400RPM
Torque 350Nm @ 2900RPM

Aurion
Power 200kW @ 6200RPM
Torque 336Nm @ 4700RPM

Facts speak for themselves, more torque earlier in the rev range, more power, the Aurion wieghs 200kg less and FWD, and only gets .2l better fuel economy doesn't mean its a more economical engine IF THE VE WAS FWD AND 200KG LESS IT WOULD USE LESS FUEL.
Apart from being quitier and 'revs smoother' I don't see any other benefits from it. The 3.6 motor is an older motor too, going back to the VZ's! The 3.5l DI matches the cheaper 3.6l DI GM spec motor. Flame me all you want, I've made my points as to why I think the 3.6l engine is better then the 3.5l, and can back them up.

If the 3.5l DI version was in the aurion, I would probably change my mind, but it's not. And the 4.0l would still beat both of them anyway. .

I said it before and i'm sticking by it.

Also look at this

Lexus $44,390 DI V6

228 kW , 306 HP SAE @ 6,400 rpm; 277 ft lb , 376 Nm @ 4,800 rpm

Camaro $24,000 DI V6

304 horsepower 227 kW at 5,900 rpm and 273 lb.-ft. of torque (370 Nm) at 5,200 rpm.
.

Camaro at almost half the price in $US, and basically the same engine for people comparing the DI engines, the lexus DI is a tad better.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by mick.wheelz

You are correct here, it is power delivery that dictates a cars drivability.

I was merely feeding the troll with peak power figures.

Look at I dont hate the aurion, I just think the FG and VE engines at this point in time are better then the NON DI 3.5l. If the aurion got DI I would most likely change my opinion. Is that so hard to understand?

[geckoGT]

Kezzer, for gods sake give it a rest!

This thread has turned to utter crap and most of it is caused by this constant 3.5 vs 3.8 engine comparison which is pointless.

If you must debate it, start your own thread so we can avoid it.

As for the others involved;

[GregXR6T]

Lol poor Kezzer i agree with some of what he is saying.

Look at I dont hate the aurion, I just think the FG and VE engines at this point in time are better then the NON DI 3.5l. If the aurion got DI I would most likely change my opinion. Is that so hard to understand?

I had a drive of my brothers aurion V6 thing what ever it is 2007 model i think, i don't like them at all thus why we have a Ford.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Kezzer, for gods sake give it a rest!

This thread has turned to utter crap and most of it is caused by this constant 3.5 vs 3.8 engine comparison which is pointless.

If you must debate it, start your own thread so we can avoid it.

As for the others involved;

[UNR8D]

^^ LOL, soo true.

hungry troll thou....

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by Wally

[mrbaxr6t]

look kezzer it don't matter what component of a car you look at in this case engine from any car there will be another better one than the one you are comparing between and a better one compared to the one that was best from those two - clearly you can't see that they are having much fun at your expense. Why you are continuing to allow them to baffles me.

this thread has sunk into absolute stupidity.

[DJKOR]

Hi guys. Just thought I would stop over here to express my views. I've been keeping an eye on this thread just to see discussion from the other side of the table. Some interesting and valid points have been raised in this discussion amongst the trolling (which I guess is to be expected for such a discussion).

I myself prefer my Toyota's so my thoughts may be a little biased but at the end of the day, the comparison between the Falcon, Commodore, and Aurion (when comparing similar models) comes down to what the consumer is looking for. I completely agree that the Aurion is not a performance vehicle. Realistically, I would say it was never designed as such. One obvious give-away is that it is only available with an automatic transmission... which at the same time is designed to perform smooth gear changes to make the drive more fluid.

The Sportivo models, despite their name and the design 'improvements', are still not really marketed as a performance vehicle. It's basically your average family car with some extras to make the driver of such vehicle feel better about their car because it feels like it's more sporty than your average car. The key word here is 'feel'. Now it just happens that when driven harder, they happen to hold up fairly well.

Owning an Aurion, I would say if driven properly, it can be quite an enjoyable drive. Now when I say this, enjoyment all comes down to the person driving it. Each person would have their own opinions on what they like, and at the end of the day, this is all that really matters to that person. It's all personal preference. I have always enjoyed driving FWD cars and find them quite enjoyable once you get used to the tricks to handling them. I'm not saying I don't like RWD, but I'm just saying that FWD doesn't mean the end of the world.

I do believe that there are things that should have been done to the Aurion to make it more appealing such as being RWD and having a manual transmission, but I guess there are some things that you can't change. At the end of the day, this is what Toyota had in mind. It's basically their standard for a family car.

As for which engine is the best, once again, this is subjective. Everyone has something that they like more than another. In terms of design, I would personally say the 3.5l 2GR in the Aurion is quite up there, but I wouldn't want to enter an argument of which is best based on my own opinions. In terms of making power, I personally think the 2GR is a little bit of a let-down though because it makes its torque much higher than the Ford and Holden counterparts. It doesn't have that "push you back in your seat" grunt to it because of that. But given the use of the engine in a FWD, it does seem more logical.

But really though, the 2GR does seem to be a bit dated. That said, it does seem to be a fairly solid engine which doesn't develop any issues and seems to be the universal engine for Toyota now. It could do with a new revision and further improvements but for Toyota, I guess they would just stick with the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I'm not here to change peoples' minds about what the Aurion is. Once someone has their view on something, they tend to stick with that. Fair enough I say to that, but as said... it's your own view.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by DJKOR

Hi guys. Just thought I would stop over here to express my views. I've been keeping an eye on this thread just to see discussion from the other side of the table. Some interesting and valid points have been raised in this discussion amongst the trolling (which I guess is to be expected for such a discussion).

I myself prefer my Toyota's so my thoughts may be a little biased but at the end of the day, the comparison between the Falcon, Commodore, and Aurion (when comparing similar models) comes down to what the consumer is looking for. I completely agree that the Aurion is not a performance vehicle. Realistically, I would say it was never designed as such. One obvious give-away is that it is only available with an automatic transmission... which at the same time is designed to perform smooth gear changes to make the drive more fluid.

The Sportivo models, despite their name and the design 'improvements', are still not really marketed as a performance vehicle. It's basically your average family car with some extras to make the driver of such vehicle feel better about their car because it feels like it's more sporty than your average car. The key word here is 'feel'. Now it just happens that when driven harder, they happen to hold up fairly well.

Owning an Aurion, I would say if driven properly, it can be quite an enjoyable drive. Now when I say this, enjoyment all comes down to the person driving it. Each person would have their own opinions on what they like, and at the end of the day, this is all that really matters to that person. It's all personal preference. I have always enjoyed driving FWD cars and find them quite enjoyable once you get used to the tricks to handling them. I'm not saying I don't like RWD, but I'm just saying that FWD doesn't mean the end of the world.

I do believe that there are things that should have been done to the Aurion to make it more appealing such as being RWD and having a manual transmission, but I guess there are some things that you can't change. At the end of the day, this is what Toyota had in mind. It's basically their standard for a family car.

As for which engine is the best, once again, this is subjective. Everyone has something that they like more than another. In terms of design, I would personally say the 3.5l 2GR in the Aurion is quite up there, but I wouldn't want to enter an argument of which is best based on my own opinions. In terms of making power, I personally think the 2GR is a little bit of a let-down though because it makes its torque much higher than the Ford and Holden counterparts. It doesn't have that "push you back in your seat" grunt to it because of that. But given the use of the engine in a FWD, it does seem more logical.

But really though, the 2GR does seem to be a bit dated. That said, it does seem to be a fairly solid engine which doesn't develop any issues and seems to be the universal engine for Toyota now. It could do with a new revision and further improvements but for Toyota, I guess they would just stick with the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I'm not here to change peoples' minds about what the Aurion is. Once someone has their view on something, they tend to stick with that. Fair enough I say to that, but as said... it's your own view.

Great post, nice to hear from an owner and one that puts out their thoughts so well and with a balanced view, thanks.

I think one of the key points in terms of handling is if you drive a FWD like you do your RWD, you are going to hate it. If you drive it like a FWD should, especially slow in and fast out of corners, you will be surprised what a grunty FWD can do.

By the way, yours doing a 14.1 @ 99 mph with virtually no mods for performance proves the aurion is no slouch.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by DJKOR

Hi guys. Just thought I would stop over here to express my views. I've been keeping an eye on this thread just to see discussion from the other side of the table. Some interesting and valid points have been raised in this discussion amongst the trolling (which I guess is to be expected for such a discussion).

I myself prefer my Toyota's so my thoughts may be a little biased but at the end of the day, the comparison between the Falcon, Commodore, and Aurion (when comparing similar models) comes down to what the consumer is looking for. I completely agree that the Aurion is not a performance vehicle. Realistically, I would say it was never designed as such. One obvious give-away is that it is only available with an automatic transmission... which at the same time is designed to perform smooth gear changes to make the drive more fluid.

The Sportivo models, despite their name and the design 'improvements', are still not really marketed as a performance vehicle. It's basically your average family car with some extras to make the driver of such vehicle feel better about their car because it feels like it's more sporty than your average car. The key word here is 'feel'. Now it just happens that when driven harder, they happen to hold up fairly well.

Owning an Aurion, I would say if driven properly, it can be quite an enjoyable drive. Now when I say this, enjoyment all comes down to the person driving it. Each person would have their own opinions on what they like, and at the end of the day, this is all that really matters to that person. It's all personal preference. I have always enjoyed driving FWD cars and find them quite enjoyable once you get used to the tricks to handling them. I'm not saying I don't like RWD, but I'm just saying that FWD doesn't mean the end of the world.

I do believe that there are things that should have been done to the Aurion to make it more appealing such as being RWD and having a manual transmission, but I guess there are some things that you can't change. At the end of the day, this is what Toyota had in mind. It's basically their standard for a family car.

As for which engine is the best, once again, this is subjective. Everyone has something that they like more than another. In terms of design, I would personally say the 3.5l 2GR in the Aurion is quite up there, but I wouldn't want to enter an argument of which is best based on my own opinions. In terms of making power, I personally think the 2GR is a little bit of a let-down though because it makes its torque much higher than the Ford and Holden counterparts. It doesn't have that "push you back in your seat" grunt to it because of that. But given the use of the engine in a FWD, it does seem more logical.

But really though, the 2GR does seem to be a bit dated. That said, it does seem to be a fairly solid engine which doesn't develop any issues and seems to be the universal engine for Toyota now. It could do with a new revision and further improvements but for Toyota, I guess they would just stick with the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I'm not here to change peoples' minds about what the Aurion is. Once someone has their view on something, they tend to stick with that. Fair enough I say to that, but as said... it's your own view.

Top post. Very well balanced views and well articulated. Happy to provide some rep points for ya given its your first ever post on AFF!!!

I'll be happy to continue a reasoned discussion on the issue (troll free...) when i have more time....

[mick.wheelz]

when DJKOR says 'it holds up fairly well' he is not wrong, as you can see by his times, for a stock family car, it does go alright.

It comes back to the point I made earlier, and that geckoGT made just then, if you know how to drive a FWD properly you can pull a lot more out of it and have a far better experience than if you try and drive it like a RWD, and vice versa.

as for the 2GR-FE... it is somewhat dated in overall design than the DI 3.6 and probably on par with the ford I6, but each motor is very close in peak power, and fairly close in peak torque

although, torque wise the ford I6 is brilliant, having such a long stroke and large displacement the torque curve is far superior to that of the 2GR or the 3.6 DI

I think this is a good and healthy discussion (when kezzer shuts up) and its nice to see that despite brand allegiances we can have a relatively mature discussion.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by mick.wheelz

I think this is a good and healthy discussion (when kezzer shuts up) and its nice to see that despite brand allegiances we can have a relatively mature discussion.

I'll shutup when you prove me and my points wrong, till then keep trollin troll :

[fordel]

No more trolling for you son.


Back on track now please.

[mrbaxr6t]

driving a front wheel drive car is almost a polar opposite to a rear wheel drive in the way the car behaves accel hard midcorner in rwd and oversteer do same in fwd and understeer polar opposites I have recently got a FWD Focus xr5 and I find it is so much easier to drive it faster than the rear wheel drive get midcorner and tramp it and when it understeers you turn in harder using the fronts to rip it around. Problem is when you use this method you reach a point where you try to use the fronts to pull it in and the rear loops round so fast it almost snaps your neck. In the RWD when you try to exit corner you dont turn in harder you opposite turn it to compensate for the rear stepping out. On a tight windy road with cars of equal power to weight I would put the money on the front wheel drive in all but the case of having a very talented driver in the RWD. They are harder to drive fast round twisties than a FWD. Not driven an Aurion but if the ride is very boat like that will somewhat undo the handling characteristics I am describing. I do think that if the ride was that soft that the police issue ones would be stiffened up somehow. I can see the argument for a hipo FWD patrol car it is faster to teach an officer to drive one fast enough to catch everybody. On open roads and/or highway the aurions may suffer to RWD cars somewhat but in urban built up areas with lots of twists the aurions would be ideal.

[xr8ted]

I think that a FWD car that allows you to play with some lift off oversteer is pretty special (and scary when it happens the first time) but come to accept and get used to it, it makes a FWD car very adjustable indeed. Anyone who has driven a golf GTI will know what I mean. Unfortunately they are few and far between.

A large FWD car which has not been designed with this playfulness in mind means that understeer is all you are ever going to get if you push hard (aka Aurion).

At least with a RWD car, even if a base XT, you can choose either oversteer or understeer. The trottle becomes like a second steering wheel, and unless compared to a FWD car which has been designed to be playful, a RWD car will always feel better to me.

[xr8ted]

Originally Posted by DJKOR

Hi guys. Just thought I would stop over here to express my views. I've been keeping an eye on this thread just to see discussion from the other side of the table. Some interesting and valid points have been raised in this discussion amongst the trolling (which I guess is to be expected for such a discussion).

I myself prefer my Toyota's so my thoughts may be a little biased but at the end of the day, the comparison between the Falcon, Commodore, and Aurion (when comparing similar models) comes down to what the consumer is looking for. I completely agree that the Aurion is not a performance vehicle. Realistically, I would say it was never designed as such. One obvious give-away is that it is only available with an automatic transmission... which at the same time is designed to perform smooth gear changes to make the drive more fluid.

The Sportivo models, despite their name and the design 'improvements', are still not really marketed as a performance vehicle. It's basically your average family car with some extras to make the driver of such vehicle feel better about their car because it feels like it's more sporty than your average car. The key word here is 'feel'. Now it just happens that when driven harder, they happen to hold up fairly well.

Owning an Aurion, I would say if driven properly, it can be quite an enjoyable drive. Now when I say this, enjoyment all comes down to the person driving it. Each person would have their own opinions on what they like, and at the end of the day, this is all that really matters to that person. It's all personal preference. I have always enjoyed driving FWD cars and find them quite enjoyable once you get used to the tricks to handling them. I'm not saying I don't like RWD, but I'm just saying that FWD doesn't mean the end of the world.

I do believe that there are things that should have been done to the Aurion to make it more appealing such as being RWD and having a manual transmission, but I guess there are some things that you can't change. At the end of the day, this is what Toyota had in mind. It's basically their standard for a family car.

As for which engine is the best, once again, this is subjective. Everyone has something that they like more than another. In terms of design, I would personally say the 3.5l 2GR in the Aurion is quite up there, but I wouldn't want to enter an argument of which is best based on my own opinions. In terms of making power, I personally think the 2GR is a little bit of a let-down though because it makes its torque much higher than the Ford and Holden counterparts. It doesn't have that "push you back in your seat" grunt to it because of that. But given the use of the engine in a FWD, it does seem more logical.

But really though, the 2GR does seem to be a bit dated. That said, it does seem to be a fairly solid engine which doesn't develop any issues and seems to be the universal engine for Toyota now. It could do with a new revision and further improvements but for Toyota, I guess they would just stick with the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I'm not here to change peoples' minds about what the Aurion is. Once someone has their view on something, they tend to stick with that. Fair enough I say to that, but as said... it's your own view.

Great post.

Although on paper the Aurion engine is lacking torque when compared to the I6 in the falcon, Toyota has done a good job of getting around this with the gearing used in the auto. It means that it makes the most of what its got, which Jap designed cars seem to do very well in my experience.

Also, as has been said on here earlier, its lighter weight helps it power to weight ratio a bit too. It beats any N/A 6 falcon or commodore for power to weight. I think that if it was of RWD configuration, the weight would be up there with the falcons and commodores, and I think that its straight line performance would suffer as a result.

[medunkt]

Interesting thread apart from the silly boy troller.

I'm in the market for a replacement for one of the most staid and boring looking cars ever made -- my utterly reliable 185,000 km Toyota Avalon, which, by the way, is lively and sure-footed enough (especially in the wet) to generate adrenaline surges and foot-to-the-board responses from Fords and Holdens on steroids. They assume I'm another granny in an Avalon, but maybe one with the accelerator pedal stuck down like some of those recalled Toyotas in the States. Please, allow an old man his little pleasures.

Had a look at the Aurion Prodigy yesterday, just to compare what you're getting compared to the Commodore International and G6 Limited Edition. To any of you who have attempted to say in a deep voice "Aurion Prodigy" three or four times quickly in succession, you'll have noticed that this model's name has a remarkable resemblance to the sound a digeridoo makes. This must be subliminal marketing for Aussies at its very best. I wonder who came up with that ridiculous name?

I was watching Mr Toyoda bowing deeply before making his confession to the US Senate Enquiry the other day, and I reckon he owes his Australian customers an even humbler bow for the Aurion Prodigy's price, which is about $6,000 more than the G6 Limited Edition. When I mentioned this to an unenthused Toyota salesman, he could only mutter something about the old superior resale value chestnut, because it sure does fall short in the bang-for-your-buck stakes. Also, it's not as nice looking inside or out *** the G6 Limited Edition in my opinion.

I was put off Aussie-made Fords because of the potentially lethal roadholding in the wet of an EL Fairmont company car, and also because of its poor build quality. However, I have to say that the G6 Limited Edition looks like a well put together car. Drives nicely too. Tempting...

[just_pazz]

buy it.... ;)

[Poetic Justice]

I can see your point.

My reasoning for it not being apples and apples, as the Prodigy is not the limited edition car.

Naturally, so they can increase volume and what not, they will offer a limited edition vehicle. This will involve either a price rollback or a heavy dealer incentive payment in order to make the price attractive.

They do not do this to the G6E as, like the Prodigy, it is a permanant model.

[Poetic Justice]

What is the Prodigy falling short of on the G6LE anyway?

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by xr8ted

Also, as has been said on here earlier, its lighter weight helps it power to weight ratio a bit too. It beats any N/A 6 falcon or commodore for power to weight. I think that if it was of RWD configuration, the weight would be up there with the falcons and commodores, and I think that its straight line performance would suffer as a result.

You made the exact same point as me, yet don't get called a troll, abused or warned. This also gives it better fuel economy, if you consider the Falcon is heavier but the XT uses around the same fuel (both 9.9l) then you really start to see how great the falcon is, without fwd compromise.

[Falcon Coupe]

Ive seen enough here, some people refuse to get off the merry go round without a push.