VFACTS July 2013

[CAMS290]

One thing that surprises me is the amount of Hilux's sold each month, they are consistently ranked last in comparisons with the Ranger, Triton, Amarok, Colorado and Navara, their drive line is old tech compared to the others ie 4 speed autos compared to 5 or 6 speeds, 126kw compared to 140 + kw of the others and 2500kg towing capacity compared to 3000-3500kg of the others and don't say because Toyota's reliability. My mate has a 2009 he bought new, he has replaced 4 injectors, fuel pump and common rail at a cost of $7000, unfortunately out of warranty.

Dealer network out in the bush may be the reason they sell so many.

[GT2]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

How developed do you think Sweden is?
One of the highest educated in the World
One of the greatest living standards.

Yet the population contributes over $300 per person to their auto industry, twenty times what Australians contribute to their's

The Swedish tax payer contributes to Swedish car maker which is listed on their stock exchange and contributes the the nations wealth.
We are asked to contribute to foreign car makers often with poor track records.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by GT2

The Swedish tax payer contributes to Swedish car maker which is listed on their stock exchange and contributes the the nations wealth.
We are asked to contribute to foreign car makers often with poor track records.

Was waiting for someone to point that out, well done!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by CAMS290

One thing that surprises me is the amount of Hilux's sold each month, they are consistently ranked last in comparisons with the Ranger, Triton, Amarok, Colorado and Navara, their drive line is old tech compared to the others ie 4 speed autos compared to 5 or 6 speeds, 126kw compared to 140 + kw of the others and 2500kg towing capacity compared to 3000-3500kg of the others and don't say because Toyota's reliability. My mate has a 2009 he bought new, he has replaced 4 injectors, fuel pump and common rail at a cost of $7000, unfortunately out of warranty.

Dealer network out in the bush may be the reason they sell so many.

Partly, but the main reason is that the mines and town councils are...probably more accurately were...huge consumers of Hiluxes and Toyotas in general. More and more in my travels I'm seeing things like Tritons (contractors and town councils seem to be getting a lot of them) and Great Walls at mine sites and also contractors. VW Amaroks are also starting to become common on mines and other areas because of their safety ratings.

When you're this sort of buyer, who cares about kilowatt figures or towing capacity? You want good servicing, reliability, price, and to be blunt, an "old tech" driveline is going to be more serviceable and probably reliable in harsh conditions than something filled with electronics.


Swedish cars? Yes, the Swedish taxpayer does contribute and their industry does fairly well...apart from SAAB which comprehensively fell on it's bum, that must have cost them. However, they are a massive exporter of cars. If Volvo, for example, were a purely internal, "sold only in the country it's made" market like Ford here, they absolutely wouldn't be able to survive in such a small country.

Simply expecting the taxpayer to keep pouring money into something for the frankly false notion that there's something magical about being able to make a car in your country isn't facing reality. We're a tiny country with a tiny population and our yearly car manufacturing numbers don't even make a blip on the international radar. Pretending we're some big big powerhouse of international car making is just fooling ourselves and lying to the public.

[GT450]

Originally Posted by GT2

The Swedish tax payer contributes to Swedish car maker which is listed on their stock exchange and contributes the the nations wealth.
We are asked to contribute to foreign car makers often with poor track records.

If Sweden is such a good example of the car industry how come SAAB are now defunct and yes GM had a hand in that happening too.
GT450

[csv8]

SAAB went under because they were different..People didn't accept their quirkiness...

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On the other side, the work is done and to junk that investment without trying to recover some revenue would be crazy...

It was crazy not to have the steering wheel available on either side of a Falcon and a ten year export plan in place from BA days, but they didn't do it anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of months after FH sales date, its all over. If FH doesn't pick up sales then there is their excuse. A terrible way to end the Falcon name, but I don't think anyone at Ford cares anymore. They just want Mustang here ASAP. The decision has been made and if Falcon withers quicker it supports those in management who decided to kill it.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Spammy

So Ford Australia moving from building an outdated car that sells less than 600 inits per month into being the Asian centre of excellence for design/testing etc is a backward step??

Building relativeley low tech machines in a hot, smelly factory enviorment can be done more cheaply in other countries - so economic forces will push the manufacturing base to those countries.

We should be thankfull we have an educated force of workers who can add value and growth at the highest level of engineering/ finance / education / medicine.

21st century blacksmithing is not the sign of a developed country.

Until those countries you are happy to toss manufacturing to, develop the expertise to replace those expensive Australian engineers too. After all they make the cars, support the industry, why wouldn't you want to base it all there?

Whats your plan C for Australia?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by prydey

i was merely defending the 'low tech' and 'outdated' attacks on falcon. it was never about sales for me.

i don't care about sales. they are what they are. it can't be helped that large cars have fallen out of favour. that is just unfortunate for falcon and other large cars.

with over 250 models on sale in australia, falcon is still up the pointy end. the top 10 or 20 is hardly definitive. the thing that hurts falcon compared to all the other models that sell in similar numbers, is that its an orphan model. nothing to do with the actual product or content.

If large cars sales were not affected by content you would expect VF to be similar in content to VE. VE being very similar in the broad scheme of things to FG. The reality is VF is a significant upgrade of content across all models and Holden have said in their PR that they had to do that, to keep the car competitive and win back customers.

Seems Holden who sell an awful lot more Commodores then Ford does Falcon, disagree with your analysis.

[JutroXR8]

Any news on the figures yet?

[Focused]

Figures thanks to caradvice: http://www.caradvice.com.au/244916/c...rs-and-losers/

1. Toyota Corolla – 3945
Mazda 3 – 3464
Toyota HiLux – 2971
Holden Commodore – 2827
Holden Cruze – 2467
Hyundai i30 – 2290
Toyota Camry – 2061
Ford Ranger – 1781
Mitsubishi Triton – 1766
10. Holden Colorado – 1694

Focus: 1514
Falcon: 594
Mondeo: 429
Territory: 966

[Sorted]

Toyota Corolla – 3945
Mazda 3 – 3464
Holden Cruze – 2467
Hyundai i30 – 2290

Then Focus 1514

WTF - why aren't they above 2000?
Is it because of the media has beaten Ford's Brand name to a pulp?

It is just as good car as all the others - why isn't above 2000?

[imugli]

Originally Posted by Sorted

It is just as good car as all the others - why isn't above 2000?

My take? Brand perception. Something the death of Falcon will actually help with IMO.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Sorted

Toyota Corolla – 3945
Mazda 3 – 3464
Holden Cruze – 2467
Hyundai i30 – 2290

Then Focus 1514

WTF - why aren't they above 2000?
Is it because of the media has beaten Ford's Brand name to a pulp?

It is just as good car as all the others - why isn't above 2000?

Oh dear...that old freedom of choice thing is annoying sometimes isn't it? Remember the good old days when people had to just buy whatever stodge Ford and Holden were dishing out to a captive audience who mostly didn't know any better because they'd never been really exposed to the best the world had to offer, when car makers here were protected from the big bad world by strong tariffs and trade barriers? Ah, those were the days...

What's the price difference between a Focus and a Corolla though? In that area of car sales, people look at price and running costs, as well as what;s included in the purchase price and what isn't.
In my region, a quick look shows manual Focus's are priced from $19000 at the moment for the base model up to about $27000 for the sport hatch.
The Corolla is $19990 to $23000.
Now, just looking at the bare figures, it doesn't seem like much...but when there's such a huge difference between the top level model of both, it makes a difference.
Also, remember those are manual prices for the Focus...how much extra does Ford sting you for an auto, a very popular gearbox these days? With Toyota it's a couple of grand extra on all models, probably the same with Ford. And no one but fleet buyers purchases the base models anyway, so it's probably fairer to look at the mid range to high end models.

Add to that the excellent reputation that Toyota has for reliability and running costs, and it;s easy to see why so many people buy them. Not to mention that whatever they put in the water for the designers of the amazing 86 has obviously filtered down to the designers of the new Corolla...it's a great looking little thing now while (sorry) the Focus still looks a little ho-hum.

[GT2]

Originally Posted by GT450

If Sweden is such a good example of the car industry how come SAAB are now defunct and yes GM had a hand in that happening too.
GT450

I have no idea whether the Swedish auto industry is good or bad. I’m arguing that if the government is going to give out money (our money, because all government money is our money) it should at the very least stay in Australia.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

How developed do you think Sweden is?
One of the highest educated in the World
One of the greatest living standards.

Yet the population contributes over $300 per person to their auto industry, twenty times what Australians contribute to their's

In 2008-2009 Sweden provided 3 billion kronas for the creation of a state-owned company to conduct R&D, 5 billion kronas for companies in financial crisis, 450 million kronas for R&D subsidies. In 2009 the population was 9,340,682. In 2009 1 Swedish Krona approx. = 0.20 Australian Dollar.
Subsidy per head of population (AUD)=181

Current Australian population approx. 23,132,000
Current Australian subsidy approx. 1,380,000,000
Subsidy per head of population (AUD)=59.66

Fast forward to now:
"Volvo cars are now owned by the Chinese," says Sweden's former prime minister and now Foreign Minister Carl Bildt. "And that's fine," he says.
"Saab as a maker of cars no longer exists" after its bankruptcy. Its assets were bought by a Sino-Japanese consortium and are now used to make electric cars only. "There were enormous calls for the government to step in" to keep it afloat, says Bildt.
But they were resisted: "Subsidies give industry a false sense of security, and then they don't change sufficiently. They just demand more subsidies and eventually collapse."

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Sorted

Then Focus 1514

WTF - why aren't they above 2000?
Is it because of the media has beaten Ford's Brand name to a pulp?

It is just as good car as all the others - why isn't above 2000?

Isn't that pretty consistent with the rest of the year?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Oh dear...that old freedom of choice thing is annoying sometimes isn't it? Remember the good old days when people had to just buy whatever stodge Ford and Holden were dishing out to a captive audience who mostly didn't know any better because they'd never been really exposed to the best the world had to offer, when car makers here were protected from the big bad world by strong tariffs and trade barriers? Ah, those were the days...

Oh FFS...cue the broken record.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

In 2008-2009 Sweden provided 3 billion kronas for the creation of a state-owned company to conduct R&D, 5 billion kronas for companies in financial crisis, 450 million kronas for R&D subsidies. In 2009 the population was 9,340,682. In 2009 1 Swedish Krona approx. = 0.20 Australian Dollar.
Subsidy per head of population (AUD)=181

Current Australian population approx. 23,132,000
Current Australian subsidy approx. 1,380,000,000
Subsidy per head of population (AUD)=59.66

Fast forward to now:
"Volvo cars are now owned by the Chinese," says Sweden's former prime minister and now Foreign Minister Carl Bildt. "And that's fine," he says.
"Saab as a maker of cars no longer exists" after its bankruptcy. Its assets were bought by a Sino-Japanese consortium and are now used to make electric cars only. "There were enormous calls for the government to step in" to keep it afloat, says Bildt.
But they were resisted: "Subsidies give industry a false sense of security, and then they don't change sufficiently. They just demand more subsidies and eventually collapse."

Rubbish.

Take that 1.38 bill and change that subsidy to an annual subsidy per head.

As i've said you are really trolling here. Big thumbs down !

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by barraxr8

take that 1.38 bill and change that subsidy to an annual subsidy per head.

aud59.66

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Focused

Figures thanks to caradvice: http://www.caradvice.com.au/244916/c...rs-and-losers/

1. Toyota Corolla – 3945
Mazda 3 – 3464
Toyota HiLux – 2971
Holden Commodore – 2827
Holden Cruze – 2467
Hyundai i30 – 2290
Toyota Camry – 2061
Ford Ranger – 1781
Mitsubishi Triton – 1766
10. Holden Colorado – 1694

Focus: 1514
Falcon: 594
Mondeo: 429
Territory: 966

Really I think Ford are doing ok, would like to see Fiesta too.
focus could sell more but at least it is a consistent number.
Now Ford need to expand the range (Kuga a good start) to begin upping their numbers once Falcon and Territory disappear.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

aud59.66

1.38 billion per year ?

[BlueOvalPrint]

OUCH! http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...805-2r8uo.html

Ford will scale back production of its Falcon in the lead-up to the federal election after recording the model's worst sales performance in history.

The iconic Australian-built large car has slumped to an all-time low, selling just 594 sedans in July according to VFacts sales figures released on Monday, just months after the company announced it will close down its Broadmeadows and Geelong manufacturing facilities in 2016.

Ford says last month's proposed FBT adjustments had a major impact on Falcon sales at the end of July and has arranged with the Manufacturers Workers Union to roster 12 ''down days'' in August and September to prevent excess inventory.

"Falcon was impacted by the proposed FBT changes in July," Ford spokesperson Sinead Phipps told Drive. "And we imagine that will stay the same until the election is decided and whether the legislation is confirmed through Parliament.

"As a result, we have negotiated with the unions to take a number of down days through August and September and we will continue to monitor the situation after that."

To put the result in context, Toyota sold just five fewer of its 86 sports coupes - the reigning Drive Car of the Year - in July while the Falcon's arch rival, the Holden Commodore, moved back into the top 10 position with its best monthly result for the new VF model with 2827 sales last month.

It wasn't all bad news for Ford though, with the blue oval maintaining fifth place in overall sales with above average growth of 7.5 per cent on the back of strong performances for its Ranger ute and Focus small car.

[BroadyFord]

^^ Like watching a terminally-ill patient withering away in hospital.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by csv8

SAAB went under because they were different..People didn't accept their quirkiness...

I think the opposite - they had become mainstream and nobody puts up with Saab resale values and maintenance problems on a mainstream car anymore.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

1.38 billion per year ?

Was $1.18 billion per year in 2010-2011 (according to the Productivity Commission 2019-2011 trade and assistance review) plus the $200million just announced. Given that I used the 2013 population figures happy to revise to approx. $62 per person per annum.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Was $1.18 billion per year in 2010-2011 (according to the Productivity Commission 2019-2011 trade and assistance review) plus the $200million just announced. Given that I used the 2013 population figures happy to revise to approx. $62 per person per annum.

Per year ?

$ 200 mil is not per year.

What is the "assistance per year 2012 /2013 ?

I forgot, you 're good at cut and paste, but that detail won't be there on some site for you to copy will it ?

Like I've said you are a troll. Oops sorry mathematician

[Chopped]

SAAB was taken over 100% by GM in 2000 (Then sold to Spyker in 2010)
GM destroyed what was left of SAAB with mediocrity.

On topic-

Good month for Holden Cruze and Commodore

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

"Subsidies give industry a false sense of security, and then they don't change sufficiently. They just demand more subsidies and eventually collapse."

...aaaand that there is the elephant in the room of heavy government motor industry subsidies and protection that no one wants to admit, but it's the whole problem.

Too many people think tariffs and protectionism somehow magically solve an industries woes...and really don't like it when the harsh facts of life are pointed out. Motoring journalists who point it out are really hated, saying they're "knocking the Australian industry"...no they're not...they're just stating the facts of economic life.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

^^ Like watching a terminally-ill patient withering away in hospital.

12 Down days in August and September (and possibly October too) means Ford is effectivly cutting production in half.

Oh, this is not good.......