diesel cars in decline...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Yes mate, I support a diesel engine in Falcon. But, please understand, I support it in the way that I think adding options for customers is a good thing, not in the way that I think Falcon must have diesel or it'll die.

Fact is, Falcon won't get a diesel. Lord knows why they didn't engineer it for the Falcon at the same time they did for Territory, but nevermind, we're past that now.

Ask all those Territory owners who were "forced" to buy a diesel car if they're now happy with their purchace. I'll bet my house every single one of them says, "yes".

What was this topic about again? .

off course they love them but that wasnt the point u wanted was it...it was about diesel being 70% totally legit or not. And i stand by the opinion that its stupid to expect ford to reinvent ecolpi for us...and turbo ecoboosts and then develope a diesl AS WELL for a small selling model like the falcon.......THATS WHY DIESEL IN FALCON SHOULDNT BE EXPECTED by ford fans...its just asking to much.

Now brazen...diesel in mondeo and terri are a totally diff story of course...ones imported and the others an suv...

[Bossxr8]

DIESEL IS FALCON WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IT'S TOO LATE IN THE PLATFORM CYCLE FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

Did everyone understand that. If it's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a very merry christmas.

Whinging won't change that fact, the diesel Falcon ship has sailed.

[jpd80]

For those saying diesel sedans sales are falling, 2012 isn't starting out that way:

[Nic85]

Wow, 22% increase in diesel passenger cars already through 1 month? 46% increase in diesel SUV sales is also worth noting. Going to be an interesting year.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by jpd80

For those saying diesel sedans sales are falling, 2012 isn't starting out that way:

image

be interesting to see if they keep going up....still got a long way to go to make any bigwigs start changing minds or get excited about new diesel stuff tho

[Nic85]

Almost a 1000% swing to diesel in passenger cars in the last 8 years. That is significant.

[jpd80]

While I wouldn't use just one month, the first one as proof positive that diesel cars are on the increase,
it is obvious that diesels are slowly taking a foot hold, much bigger than LPG and way bigger than hybrids.

That gradual increase in diesel cars is the reason that Ford and other manufacturers now see Ecoboost
strategy as an effective way to rally sales of petrol vehicles and maintain those greater numbers for longer.

This wasn't meant to be the battle cry for a diesel Falcon but it gives food for thought regarding the next
product cycle, what will be in and what will be out. EcoLPI is a fleet based initiative and if fleets don't take it up,
EcoLPI will be gone and replaced with other strategies designed to attract more retail buyers....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Wow, 22% increase in diesel passenger cars already through 1 month? 46% increase in diesel SUV sales is also worth noting. Going to be an interesting year.

the graph doesn't mean a lot. when a segment is selling close to 40000/month, its never going to have the big ups and downs like smaller segments. if you look at the %, maybe falcon should be a hybrid!! that seems to be the biggest mover!!

for sheer volume, petrol is streets ahead. small capacity turbo's are relatively young and as they become more commonplace it will be more accurate to gauge their success.

[Crazy Dazz]

Diesel PASSENGER cars are still a small minority in Australia, and have been restricted to a few makes, so fluctuating sales aren’t significant.
And no, Ford is obsessed with making use of it’s existing petrol engine production via EcoBoost. If you want economy AND longevity, Diesel wins hands down.

[Kevaclone]

Surely a turbo diesel RTV Ute would have made a few sales to the farmers and a 1 tonne turbo diesel ute for the Tradies

roomier cab(how many single cab Hiluxes can you put an eski behind the seats) and more comfortable ride than the jap utes
A 6 cyl turbo diesel would also have enough power to compete with the Landcruisers for those that don't need 4WD but constantly drag heavy loads on trailers

I've driven some small capacity turbo petrols and I doubt I could live with those currently available, the 2+ second off boost wait for any power is just too long, maybe a twin sequential turbo could fix that though

[flooded one]

i reckon a diesel option for falcon ute is a good idea with 4x4 options as well. but not as a sedan. diesels in sedans dont mix in my books. diesels are for workhorses!!! I would never buy a diesel sedan. it'll never happen thou. not while the rangers about. i reckon the falcon ute looks heaps better as a trayback then other trayback ute on the market if you ask me.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by wildrider

i reckon a diesel option for falcon ute is a good idea with 4x4 options as well. but not as a sedan. diesels in sedans dont mix in my books. diesels are for workhorses!!! I would never buy a diesel sedan. it'll never happen thou. not while the rangers about. i reckon the falcon ute looks heaps better as a trayback then other trayback ute on the market if you ask me.

Yeah, it’s weird how things seem to be driven by market perceptions.
If you’re going to put a TD into the territory, then surely dropping it the Falcon is a no-brainer? But no, SUV’s can have TDs, but sedans can’t.
So instead they source a whole new turbo petrol engine?
If Eco boost is the answer, then why not an EB territory?
Furthermore, if ecoboost is so wonderful, why did they bother with the Coyote/Miami? Surely EB 3.5 V6 would be great, and why not an EB 4.6 V8?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yeah, it’s weird how things seem to be driven by market perceptions.
If you’re going to put a TD into the territory, then surely dropping it the Falcon is a no-brainer? But no, SUV’s can have TDs, but sedans can’t.
So instead they source a whole new turbo petrol engine?
If Eco boost is the answer, then why not an EB territory?
Furthermore, if ecoboost is so wonderful, why did they bother with the Coyote/Miami? Surely EB 3.5 V6 would be great, and why not an EB 4.6 V8?

But then again if T6 was a good engine then it would have been a no brainer that BA Fairmont Ghia, BA FPV and SX Terri would all have a T6 option.

Eventually they did make a GTET, F6 and TT but one at a time not all at once.

They have spent a small fortune making ecolpi and EB4, why would they purposely dilute sales?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

They have spent a small fortune making ecolpi and EB4, why would they purposely dilute sales?

this is what goes over many peoples heads. ford are trying to sell a range of vehicles, not just falcon. they have spent a fair bit developing ranger so why put a diesel in a falcon ute when it would probably steal ranger sales.

to me it looks like they are ok at the moment with falcon sales and are trying to get the rest of the range up to that 1000-1500 mark.

how many cars of falcons size are there in diesel? and how many of them outsell their petrol stablemate?

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by prydey

this is what goes over many peoples heads. ford are trying to sell a range of vehicles, not just falcon. they have spent a fair bit developing ranger so why put a diesel in a falcon ute when it would probably steal ranger sales.

to me it looks like they are ok at the moment with falcon sales and are trying to get the rest of the range up to that 1000-1500 mark.

how many cars of falcons size are there in diesel? and how many of them outsell their petrol stablemate?

Lots, and all. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Peugeot, Renault, Jaguar, Citreon, Skoda, VW. Take your pick.

[jpd80]

Actually, I'm revising what I said about EcoLPI after seeing the February sales numbers:

Sedans: 443
Light Commercials: 415

So if Ford got 50% of sedans and most of commercial range, that makes around 620 sales.
Man, if that's true then Ford has started to sell just about every EcoLPI they are making.
If the above is true, then EcoLPI sales are around half of Falcon sales and conversely,
is the I-6 on the outer with buyers...Ecoboost can't come quick enough to find out..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Lots, and all. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Peugeot, Renault, Jaguar, Citreon, Skoda, VW. Take your pick.

way to answer only half the question again and again. i'm well aware of the diesel options on the market. how do they fare against their petrol equivalent?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

way to answer only half the question again and again. i'm well aware of the diesel options on the market. how do they fare against their petrol equivalent?

There's no way to know because most manufacturers won break down the sales that way.


In Mondeo, the bulk of sales are unobtainium diesel and Ecoboost is what's left over...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Actually, I'm revising what I said about EcoLPI after seeing the February sales numbers:

Sedans: 443
Light Commercials: 415

So if Ford got 50% of sedans and most of commercial range, that makes around 620 sales.
Man, if that's true then Ford has started to sell just about every EcoLPI they are making.
If the above is true, then EcoLPI sales are around half of Falcon sales and conversely,
is the I-6 on the outer with buyers...Ecoboost can't come quick enough to find out..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1369

Where you getting 415 Light Commericals from? It is 246 in only?

Although, percenatge wise it is the biggest growing fuel type year on year..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Nic85

Lots, and all. Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Peugeot, Renault, Jaguar, Citreon, Skoda, VW. Take your pick.

You didn't really answer the questions.. I dont think any of them out sell there petrol acounter part!!

[Nic85]

I answered half the question, lol. I don't have a full break down of numbers, but if the amount of 320d and 250CDi mercs I see getting around, and the fact that about 85% of Mondeo sales are diesel, then I'd say the result would be a high percentage.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Nic85

I answered half the question, lol. I don't have a full break down of numbers, but if the amount of 320d and 250CDi mercs I see getting around, and the fact that about 85% of Mondeo sales are diesel, then I'd say the result would be a high percentage.

I think you need to go back & read what started this topc & you'd see Merc & BWN are out from your list!!

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I think you need to go back & read what started this topc & you'd see Merc & BWN are out from your list!!

The article written is poor at best. It compares the previous years sales and states diesel sales are down 10%, when the entire market was down significantly. BMW saying they "expect" a decline in diesel cars: Well, we'll wait and see. Nearly every 3 or 5 series I see is a diesel.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1369

Where you getting 415 Light Commericals from? It is 246 in only?

Although, percenatge wise it is the biggest growing fuel type year on year..

Yes my bad, wrong column syndrome...
Still guessing here but that could make EcoLPI sales roughly 400 and a fair whack of February's sales.

[Chilliman]

I think what the article fails to mention is that future emissions regulations will make 'clean' diesels even more costly to manufacture. There is probably also political pressure to move passenger vehicles away from diesel, so as to keep the price lower for transport and other businesses which are big users of the fuel. Of course engines for commercial vehicles won't have to meet the same standards.

I believe that statements from the Euro manufacturers are just them staying ahead of the curve and their assessment of the legislative and political landscape.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes my bad, wrong column syndrome...
Still guessing here but that could make EcoLPI sales roughly 400 and a fair whack of February's sales.

They are Jan & Feb numbers..?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

They are Jan & Feb numbers..?

Oh......No......YTD = year to date. (I thought I'd missed some good news)

Probably why the plant is back to four day weeks and what i originally said a few days back
about some build up of EcoLPI and the discount pricing appearing in some papers..

[jpd80]

Just getting back onto diesel cars for a moment, Russell has a neat chart for members in the Technical resources section
showing a break down of annual sales in terms of percentages and fuel type. LINK

The gist of the table is that diesel cars shot up from below 1.18% in 2005 to 6% in 2008 and then edged to 8% in 2011.
At the same time, Hybrid sales began to take off from 0.65% in 2009 to 1.51% in 2010 and 1.48% in 2011.
So while combined sales of diesel and Hybrid car has increased to around 9.5%, there is some competition
between the two and while were looking at diesel cars at 8% of the total, it looks like the growth is nosing over,
much less than SUVs at 35% and light Commercials at 76% where the case for diesel is much more compelling..

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by flappist

But then again if T6 was a good engine then it would have been a no brainer that BA Fairmont Ghia, BA FPV and SX Terri would all have a T6 option.

Eventually they did make a GTET, F6 and TT but one at a time not all at once.

They have spent a small fortune making ecolpi and EB4, why would they purposely dilute sales?

Originally Posted by prydey

this is what goes over many peoples heads. ford are trying to sell a range of vehicles, not just falcon. they have spent a fair bit developing ranger so why put a diesel in a falcon ute when it would probably steal ranger sales.

to me it looks like they are ok at the moment with falcon sales and are trying to get the rest of the range up to that 1000-1500 mark.

how many cars of falcons size are there in diesel? and how many of them outsell their petrol stablemate?

I don’t get people who say, oh why build X because it will take sales from Y???
Ford’s biggest competitors aren’t its own products.
If a Diesel Falcon Ute took sales from Ranger, firstly who cares as the Ranger is a mass produced import, and secondly it would also take sales from Toyota/ Nissan/ Mitsubishi/Isuzu/etc.
That said, I’m not saying that Ford’s reading of the market is wrong, just that the market is weird.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I don’t get people who say, oh why build X because it will take sales from Y???
Ford’s biggest competitors aren’t its own products.
If a Diesel Falcon Ute took sales from Ranger, firstly who cares as the Ranger is a mass produced import, and secondly it would also take sales from Toyota/ Nissan/ Mitsubishi/Isuzu/etc.
That said, I’m not saying that Ford’s reading of the market is wrong, just that the market is weird.

Becuase it is the Ford motor company & not the Falcon motor company... No point in FORD investing money in R&D if it will not increase FORD sales!!