VFACTS July 2013

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Really --- google suggets they employ about 20,000 people world wide -- no idea how many of those are herring chasers

Cars are 20k
Trucks are 100k
According to Wiki.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Well I must ring the dealer, because the dozens of Corollas we have at work didnt come with it.

I've saved you the 20 cents.
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/new/details/2013-toyota-corolla-zre182r-656183?R=656183&Silo=spec&Vertical=car&Ridx=0&eapi =2
Bluetooth, , iPod, Voice recognition, Cruise control standard.
With all those gizmos it might take over the crown as #1 selling car!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Spammy

WHy don't you knock up a chart showing number of gears and blueteeth on one axis v's monthly sales over time on the other axis and see if that helps you win your argument

i'm not the one claiming the falcon is outdated and low tech now am i.

being popular doesn't always = better.

[XR Martin]

According to their annual report...

On December 31, 2011 the Volvo Group had
98,162 employees and 19,675 temporary
employees and consultants, compared with
90,409 employees and 14,851 temporary
employees and consultants at year-end
2010.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Cars are 20k
Trucks are 100k
According to Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Trucks


18,997 in 2011

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I've saved you the 20 cents.
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/new/details/2013-toyota-corolla-zre182r-656183?R=656183&Silo=spec&Vertical=car&Ridx=0&eapi =2
Bluetooth, , iPod, Voice recognition, Cruise control standard.
With all those gizmos it might take over the crown as #1 selling car!

Do the same search for the sedan

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Really --- google suggets they employ about 20,000 people world wide -- no idea how many of those are herring chasers

From the horses mouth:
With 17,000 dedicated employees, Volvo Trucks strives to have satisfied customers and to be an attractive employer. - See more at: http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/gl....ym8jOXwY.dpuf

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm not the one claiming the falcon is outdated and low tech now am i.

being popular doesn't always = better.

but being popular leads to sales and sales leads to profits

lots of "better" car manufacturers have gone broke trying to disprove this

[XR Martin]

When I said Volvo trucks, I meant Volvo AB.
Ie Volvo brand, minus the cars.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

From the horses mouth:
With 17,000 dedicated employees, Volvo Trucks strives to have satisfied customers and to be an attractive employer. - See more at: http://www.volvotrucks.com/trucks/gl....ym8jOXwY.dpuf

yeah but 100k suits the other side of the argument ....so lets just ignore this please

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

I've saved you the 20 cents.
http://www.redbook.com.au/cars/research/new/details/2013-toyota-corolla-zre182r-656183?R=656183&Silo=spec&Vertical=car&Ridx=0&eapi =2
Bluetooth, , iPod, Voice recognition, Cruise control standard.
With all those gizmos it might take over the crown as #1 selling car!

Whether its got to do with our fleet agreement or whatever with Toyota, our 2012/13 Corolla hatches do not come with cruise control.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Spammy

but being popular leads to sales and sales leads to profits

lots of "better" car manufacturers have gone broke trying to disprove this

i was merely defending the 'low tech' and 'outdated' attacks on falcon. it was never about sales for me.

i don't care about sales. they are what they are. it can't be helped that large cars have fallen out of favour. that is just unfortunate for falcon and other large cars.

with over 250 models on sale in australia, falcon is still up the pointy end. the top 10 or 20 is hardly definitive. the thing that hurts falcon compared to all the other models that sell in similar numbers, is that its an orphan model. nothing to do with the actual product or content.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Do the same search for the sedan

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics. It is on statistics and on the absence of statistics that the advocate of national pensions relies....."

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by prydey

i was merely defending the 'low tech' and 'outdated' attacks on falcon. it was never about sales for me.

i don't care about sales. they are what they are. it can't be helped that large cars have fallen out of favour. that is just unfortunate for falcon and other large cars.

with over 250 models on sale in australia, falcon is still up the pointy end. the top 10 or 20 is hardly definitive. the thing that hurts falcon compared to all the other models that sell in similar numbers, is that its an orphan model. nothing to do with the actual product or content.

I agree --- Falcon and Commodore are pushing you know what uphill as no mainstream car can exist on the sort of numbers they are building. Which is a what I meant by outdated (obselete) ... ie there is no business case for a large rwd 6 cyl sedan sold only in one market.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics. It is on statistics and on the absence of statistics that the advocate of national pensions relies....."

So does the sedan come with cruise or not?

[I6DOHC]

Originally Posted by Spammy

We should be thankfull we have an educated force of workers who can add value and growth at the highest level of engineering/ finance / education / medicine.

21st century blacksmithing is not the sign of a developed country.

Do you really think a country of 22million will be collectively smarter than the rest of world forever? Are we now?

Given one of our main 'service' industries is educating those developing countries our so called educated workforce will become globally redundant faster than you think.

As per usual though, people are largely ignorant until it affects themselves...but I am sure most Aussie manufacturing workers and farmers are only too acutely aware.

Perhaps this is getting off topic. I am hoping for a bounce in Falcon/Tezza numbers once things stabalise with the federal election done and dusted. It's an impossible situation for the locals at the moment, with government policy done on the run...crazy situation.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Cars are 20k
Trucks are 100k
According to Wiki.

Volvo Group includes Volvo Trucks, a part of Renault-Nissan and UD Trucks as well as Mack Trucks.
What Wiki is quotion is not only manufacturing but dealer servicing and maintenance associates.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Which Ford dealership do you run?? Strapp Ford wasn't it?

No wonder Ford can't sell them, with dealers as optimistic as you. No doubt you have all your FG2's sitting up in the back corner of the yard rusting away.

Maybe Ford should have went around and sorted the dealers out years ago...

Really! Not pessimistic at all. Just a realist when it comes to anything in the E-class segment at present. Are you one of those that blames Ford and its dealers for where the falcon is? And if you're answer to that question is yes, wake up!
The Ford product range at present is as good as any other mainstream manufacturer. The Fiesta, Focus, Kuga, Ranger are brilliant cars and take great pride in selling them. The Falcon (due to its low sale volumes and constant critism of the vehicle by the media does the Ford Brand harm. I like Ford of Australia is looking forward to life after local production. And the sooner it happens, the better it will be for Ford as a brand and its dealer network. The reason the falcon doesnt justify its existence is no fault of Ford's marketing nor its dealer network.
I thought you would be smart enough to work that out but obviously thats not the case.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

There may still be, it may require a change in Government and dumping of the FBT changes.

The brand needs positive news. The press cant help but to give Ford a hard time with Falcon sales. If the trend of lower falcon volumes continue, I couldnt blame ford for walking away from FH. Matter of fact, with the new imports that Ford will bring, i believe the future will be bright.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Dont understand why you are debating my guess at why the next falcon may not see the light of day. The Ford product range at present is as good as any other mainstream manufacturer. The Fiesta, Focus, Kuga, Ranger are brilliant cars and take great pride in selling them. The Falcon (due to its low sale volumes and constant critism of the vehicle by the media does the Ford Brand harm. I like Ford of Australia is looking forward to life after local production. And the sooner it happens, the better it will be for Ford as a brand and its dealer network. The reason the falcon doesnt justify its existence is no fault of Ford's marketing nor its dealer network.
I thought you would be smart enough to work that out but obviously thats not the case.

Im not debating your guess... Its probably a reality. The thing I dont get is why someone in your position would be happy to **** can something you still have to sell, something thats costing you money and probably incentive to go to work.

Ford isn't in the top 10 at the moment with anything it sells, its lucky to get 1 vehicle in there a month... Is it because the cars are ****?, Falcons bad media?, or the shitful dealer network? Going by my experience i'll put my $$$ on the last one because nearly every car Ford has on the market at the moment is the BEST in its class... We can't blame stock shortages on low sales forever (Fiesta, Focus and Kuga all have reasonable stock levels, and Ranger is starting to catch up). As for Falcon well most people are over that now, other then the enthusiasts so can you really blame it for poor performance of the rest of the range?? Unlikely.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

The reason the falcon doesnt justify its existence is no fault of Ford's marketing nor its dealer network.
I thought you would be smart enough to work that out but obviously thats not the case.

If Ford didn't go out of their way to strangle it, responded adquately to media led bashing over the last few years, didn't import it's CEO and Marketing personnel from America then it wouldn't be an inconvenient noose around the neck of Ford and its dealers.
Seriosuly, if they are going to do a half-hearted new model, and treat it with such contempt, I'd rather they took it out back and shot it. Its an affront to the workers and fans. If Holden can sell 3K cars a month, Falcon is doing well to sell 30% of that, despite Ford's efforts to smother it.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Im not debating your guess... Its probably a reality. The thing I dont get is why someone in your position would be happy to **** can something you still have to sell, something thats costing you money and probably incentive to go to work.

Ford isn't in the top 10 at the moment with anything it sells, its lucky to get 1 vehicle in there a month... Is it because the cars are ****?, Falcons bad media?, or the shitful dealer network? Going by my experience i'll put my $$$ on the last one because nearly every car Ford has on the market at the moment is the BEST in its class... We can't blame stock shortages on low sales forever (Fiesta, Focus and Kuga all have reasonable stock levels, and Ranger is starting to catch up). As for Falcon well most people are over that now, other then the enthusiasts so can you really blame it for poor performance of the rest of the range?? Unlikely.

Lets get this right. You're saying that my guess about there not being another Falcon due to the diminishing volume that falcon represents in that segment is ***t caning the car? I love the falcon range. The only car I've ever owned was an XR8 Manual. I would have loved nothing more that to buy an R-spec tommorow. I love them dearly and by you surmising that I shitcan the Falcon by saying it may not be upgraded, bemuses me. If you are half a human, you would apologise for that.

By the way, Strapp Ford is the only metropolitan Ford dealer to win a record 9 dealer of the year awards so once again one of you're allegation carries no weight.

As for the Ford dealer network, I am going to use this analgy. If you had a classroom with nearly 300 kids, there will always be a few bad kids. The majority will be good. Its the same with car dealers, not just Ford but any other brand.

As for the vehicles you say should do better, they will as soon as these new Range of vehicles comes through along with Ford's vision on improved customer service.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

If Ford didn't go out of their way to strangle it, responded adquately to media led bashing over the last few years, didn't import it's CEO and Marketing personnel from America then it wouldn't be an inconvenient noose around the neck of Ford and its dealers.
Seriosuly, if they are going to do a half-hearted new model, and treat it with such contempt, I'd rather they took it out back and shot it. Its an affront to the workers and fans. If Holden can sell 3K cars a month, Falcon is doing well to sell 30% of that, despite Ford's efforts to smother it.

Would you like to put some money on whether Holden will be doing 3000 units per month by the end of the year? That will drop to 1500 units by december. And i am serious, I will take bets.

[Cuyper]

In my experience it IS the dealer network that hurts ford sales. They are so anti falcon that its hurting confidence in ford as a whole. The rest of the cars are brilliant but they don't sell in the numbers they should. If the new fiesta st doesn't sell 1000 a month on its own without the other fiestas they need to take the dealers out the back and shoot them with the falcon. Let's see. BTW there's not a chance in hell the 2014 falcon will be built or at least updated much at all. You could gather that when they said nothings cast in stone and its specs are being reviewed. Some people thought that meant it'll get a last minute upgrade to match the vf, my take was they will can it. If you go to any ford dealer and show interest in a falcon they will talk you out of it, send you to look at other fords or other brands they sell. You won't be sold a falcon. Why is that?, no money in it?.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by Cuyper

In my experience it IS the dealer network that hurts ford sales. They are so anti falcon that its hurting confidence in ford as a whole. The rest of the cars are brilliant but they don't sell in the numbers they should. If the new fiesta st doesn't sell 1000 a month on its own without the other fiestas they need to take the dealers out the back and shoot them with the falcon. Let's see. BTW there's not a chance in hell the 2014 falcon will be built or at least updated much at all. You could gather that when they said nothings cast in stone and its specs are being reviewed. Some people thought that meant it'll get a last minute upgrade to match the vf, my take was they will can it.

You are living proof that people like you exist

[buickman]

I've had no issues with the current Ford Dealership I purchased the car off with a couple of extra’s at a fair price and no issues with the service on the car and would purchase another car from them with confidence. Many industries have people with apathy to work and car dealerships are not excluded from them.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Alas the government 'FBT rubbish' was an overly generous tax break on car leases (100% private!) which became middle/upper class welfare. It was a scheme which was a bit of a rort and went on for too long. The timing however is terrible (for Commodore and Falcon/Terri).

With all the cancelled orders do the government even have a chance of getting the few billion they thought they would save with the FBT changes. Chances are with the sales dropping off a cliff they will probably not even save one cent, cause they will lose revenue on car sales, GST, stamp duty etc. Not to mention the novated lease company employees who have already been laid off because of it probably signing up for the dole as we speak. It will be like the mining tax all over again, big promises that fails to deliver. This government has no clue how to do anything. The theory is good, but in practice its a disaster.

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Given the price of the soon to be launched Chev SS which was costed when our dollar was at its highest and the fact the AUD is now dropping, I think its a big assumption that Holden's exports are all loss makers.

Holden have been working on the figures of 80c AUS for their export programs. So until it hits that they are making much less than they anticipate.

[jpd80]

Before anyone asks, Caprice PPV July sales = 182.

Ford PI Sedan (Taurus based) = 903
Ford PI Ute (Explorer based))= 1,347

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Cuyper

In my experience it IS the dealer network that hurts ford sales. They are so anti falcon that its hurting confidence in ford as a whole. The rest of the cars are brilliant but they don't sell in the numbers they should. If the new fiesta st doesn't sell 1000 a month on its own without the other fiestas they need to take the dealers out the back and shoot them with the falcon. Let's see. BTW there's not a chance in hell the 2014 falcon will be built or at least updated much at all. You could gather that when they said nothings cast in stone and its specs are being reviewed. Some people thought that meant it'll get a last minute upgrade to match the vf, my take was they will can it. If you go to any ford dealer and show interest in a falcon they will talk you out of it, send you to look at other fords or other brands they sell. You won't be sold a falcon. Why is that?, no money in it?.

Without Ford Credit supporting dealer floor plans, the dealerships have to pay interest on vehicles
they purchase on plan from Ford, if they get stuck with slow moving stock it costs them a lot
so most dealers have really trimmed stock back to fast moving vehicles, it's possible to finance
two Focus for the cost of one entry level Falcon and thus get a better return on investment.

The biggest problem has always been Ford getting the right vehicles to dealers,
the people who actually know what customers want and stock accordingly.......
It's too hard to keep cars on the plan for that mega walk-in buyer who wants a specific car..

[KIWI-1]

Didn't Ford Credit exit Australia at the time of the GFC?